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  1. #1

    New 5.3 World PvP and Blizzard

    Fully geared Conquest gear gives you about 60% PvP Power, which translates to 60% more damage. Wearing such gear, you will have a significant advantage over the LFR-geared player, have a moderate advantage over the normal-geared player, and should be pretty competitive with a Heroic raid–geared player—they may have more survivability, but you might do more damage. Statistically, Heroic-geared raiders are a very small percentage of WoW players, so you’re unlikely to even encounter them out in the world. If you do, the outcome will likely come down not to small gear disparities, but who is more skilled at PvP, who got the jump on whom, and which side outnumbers the other.
    This alone shows that Blizzard is simply lying through their teeth about the change the same way they did for a long time. Fact is that the cap introduced was needed because even normal raid pieces with upgrades/thunderforged would've outperformed PvP gear in quite a few slots, even now we see this problem arise with the PvE trinkets.
    Heroic raid gear isn't as rare as they make it out to be, people are already doing a few HCs on my server in "pugs" such as Horridon/the first boss.

    So how exactly does PvE gear go from grossly outperforming PvP gear in an PvP environment to being slightly worse or about equal when they remove resilience from PvP gear, nerf it's ilevel from 512 (elite) to 496 max and give PvE geared players another 25% resilience for free? I mean not a single one of these changes was in favor of PvP gear?

  2. #2
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    A more interesting question is, should PvP actually be about the gear, or perhaps an even more interesting question, why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP? It's already broken to a point where it is not even worth trying to fix it.

    I think blizzard made it pretty clear they do not intend to completely ban PvE gear out of PvP, hence why PvE trinkets and such are a problem now. A problem that is hopefully fixed next patch with the changes and ilvl ceiling in structured PvP, where PvP gear will be superior in 95% of the cases.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    or perhaps an even more interesting question, why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP? It's already broken to a point where it is not even worth trying to fix it.
    This. Last I heard people were complaining that there was almost no World PvP - Blizzard implement a gear change so PVE players and PVP players will both be competitive, and everyone is in uproar. (Fully upgraded HC Raiders might deal 5-10% more damage, but it's likely if they get jumped doing dailies/quests they'll have the wrong spec and glyphs anyway).

  4. #4
    What snuggli and Nib said, and honestly, when are you going to fight people in heroic raid gear on PvP servers, anyway? Very, very rarely, and if it's a big problem, do what most people do when world pvp happens, get a group going and counter-kill them.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    A more interesting question is, should PvP actually be about the gear, or perhaps an even more interesting question, why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP? It's already broken to a point where it is not even worth trying to fix it.

    I think blizzard made it pretty clear they do not intend to completely ban PvE gear out of PvP, hence why PvE trinkets and such are a problem now. A problem that is hopefully fixed next patch with the changes and ilvl ceiling in structured PvP, where PvP gear will be superior in 95% of the cases.
    I always cared about World PvP, fact is that it was "fine" on my server. It is the sole reason I ever leveled an Alliance char on my server because it is mayorly made up by Horde. The rest is your personal opinion on this and doesn't really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    This. Last I heard people were complaining that there was almost no World PvP - Blizzard implement a gear change so PVE players and PVP players will both be competitive, and everyone is in uproar. (Fully upgraded HC Raiders might deal 5-10% more damage, but it's likely if they get jumped doing dailies/quests they'll have the wrong spec and glyphs anyway).
    1. People complaining were usually people not willing to actually go out and find some. It's people playing the mayority faction on an server with 90:10 or worse faction ratios. It is easy to fight world pvp if you're actually willing to look for them.

    2. Sorry, bullshit. It merely shows that you're unable to properly read numbers. PvE geared people will have 26 ilevels on PvP gear at the very least or two Wotlk tiers for that matter. They'll be able to upgrade said stuff to ilevel 530 making it a 34 ilevel difference. The stat gain is HUGE absolutely incredible huge.
    One of the reason Blizzard introduced this change was that high rated players were already trying to find heroic raids to buy themselves into because Thunderforged and especially heroic/heroic thunderforged had several hundred main stats and stamina more on a single item.

    The disparity was so absurdly high that something had to be done, so we now have the ceiling. This means that before any changes PvE gear was vastly superior in a great many slots so how exactly does giving PvE geared players another 25% resilience and nerfing PvP gear by 16 levels suddenly improve the situation PvP gear is in? Oh wait! It doesn't!
    Fact is that someone even in 530/Thunderforged gear was going to have a around 100k more health than someone in the elite 512 PvP gear. This isn't even the heroic gear we're talking about mind you.

    PvE gear is going to be vastly superior for World PvP, in fact so much that people using PvP gear will gimp themselves outside of Arena/BG's. Hell as it currently goes you might not even be able to enter SoO with the current conquest gear coming 5.4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunterpower View Post
    What snuggli and Nib said, and honestly, when are you going to fight people in heroic raid gear on PvP servers, anyway? Very, very rarely, and if it's a big problem, do what most people do when world pvp happens, get a group going and counter-kill them.
    I am actually convinced that 2/3 people responding to my post don't even PvP one of them being you. Around here the vast majority of people are located on PvP servers even most of the big raiding guilds are for that matter. Killing a few heroics isn't anywhere near as hard as you people are making it out to be. If you had read what I've written, you obviouyl didn't, you would've noticed that some Pugs/Half Pugs are already doing some heroic modes in ToT.
    You're going to encounter and fight these people quite frequently, just not the people COMPLETLY decked out in heroic, but that isn't necessary to give them a huge advantage. Thunderforged and 5.3 upgrades will already do that for them.

    This isn't about being ganked so you can take your conceited "counter kill them" and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine but PvP gear being bad, outright horrible for a PvP situation. If you use it in World PvP you are gimping yourself plain and simple. You'll be at a huge disadvantage and the whole "just run and fight them with a group" as if they were some raid bosses is pretty idiotic.

    Man people like you really make me aggressive.

  6. #6
    I don't understand your point about 1).

    Servers with ridiculous H/A ratios will never have WPvP, nothing could ever fix that apart from merging every server in WoW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    2. Sorry, bullshit. It merely shows that you're unable to properly read numbers. PvE geared people will have 26 ilevels on PvP gear at the very least or two Wotlk tiers for that matter. They'll be able to upgrade said stuff to ilevel 530 making it a 34 ilevel difference. The stat gain is HUGE absolutely incredible huge.
    One of the reason Blizzard introduced this change was that high rated players were already trying to find heroic raids to buy themselves into because Thunderforged and especially heroic/heroic thunderforged had several hundred main stats and stamina more on a single item.

    Fact is that someone even in 530/Thunderforged gear was going to have a around 100k more health than someone in the elite 512 PvP gear. This isn't even the heroic gear we're talking about mind you.
    I won't pretend like I've done any maths on the subject, but you can't JUST look at stats. You also seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that PvP gear has PvP power - increasing your damage by nearly 50%.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    I don't understand your point about 1).

    Servers with ridiculous H/A ratios will never have WPvP, nothing could ever fix that apart from merging every server in WoW.
    Actually not quite true. Anyway my point was that the people who usually whine that there is no world PvP were people sitting on such servers mostly being part of the mayority faction and not willing to do anything to actually change anything intead expecting the world pvp to come to them. I rolled an rogue on a 90% Horde PvP server and ever since then had loads and loads of World PvP.

    I won't pretend like I've done any maths on the subject, but you can't JUST look at stats. You also seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that PvP gear has PvP power - increasing your damage by nearly 50%.
    Math was done, several thousand main stats alongside 100k more health flat out beat the damage increase of PvP power by quite a lot. People forget that 50% doesn't mean PvP players are going to do 50% more damage then PvE players but merely get 50% bonus damage on their own far lower dmg.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP?
    They don't, they're just digging for more reasons to post on forums about how they hate "Bli$$ard".

  9. #9
    Seeing as Alliance and Horde will not exist in the coming expansion, world PvP won't exist either, or at least not to it's current extent, that's the reason why they don't make any changes regarding it.

    /thread

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    I always cared about World PvP, fact is that it was "fine" on my server. It is the sole reason I ever leveled an Alliance char on my server because it is mayorly made up by Horde. The rest is your personal opinion on this and doesn't really matter.



    1. People complaining were usually people not willing to actually go out and find some. It's people playing the mayority faction on an server with 90:10 or worse faction ratios. It is easy to fight world pvp if you're actually willing to look for them.

    2. Sorry, bullshit. It merely shows that you're unable to properly read numbers. PvE geared people will have 26 ilevels on PvP gear at the very least or two Wotlk tiers for that matter. They'll be able to upgrade said stuff to ilevel 530 making it a 34 ilevel difference. The stat gain is HUGE absolutely incredible huge.
    One of the reason Blizzard introduced this change was that high rated players were already trying to find heroic raids to buy themselves into because Thunderforged and especially heroic/heroic thunderforged had several hundred main stats and stamina more on a single item.

    The disparity was so absurdly high that something had to be done, so we now have the ceiling. This means that before any changes PvE gear was vastly superior in a great many slots so how exactly does giving PvE geared players another 25% resilience and nerfing PvP gear by 16 levels suddenly improve the situation PvP gear is in? Oh wait! It doesn't!
    Fact is that someone even in 530/Thunderforged gear was going to have a around 100k more health than someone in the elite 512 PvP gear. This isn't even the heroic gear we're talking about mind you.

    PvE gear is going to be vastly superior for World PvP, in fact so much that people using PvP gear will gimp themselves outside of Arena/BG's. Hell as it currently goes you might not even be able to enter SoO with the current conquest gear coming 5.4.


    I am actually convinced that 2/3 people responding to my post don't even PvP one of them being you. Around here the vast majority of people are located on PvP servers even most of the big raiding guilds are for that matter. Killing a few heroics isn't anywhere near as hard as you people are making it out to be. If you had read what I've written, you obviouyl didn't, you would've noticed that some Pugs/Half Pugs are already doing some heroic modes in ToT.
    You're going to encounter and fight these people quite frequently, just not the people COMPLETLY decked out in heroic, but that isn't necessary to give them a huge advantage. Thunderforged and 5.3 upgrades will already do that for them.

    This isn't about being ganked so you can take your conceited "counter kill them" and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine but PvP gear being bad, outright horrible for a PvP situation. If you use it in World PvP you are gimping yourself plain and simple. You'll be at a huge disadvantage and the whole "just run and fight them with a group" as if they were some raid bosses is pretty idiotic.

    Man people like you really make me aggressive.

    i agree with you 100%-well said!this change does nothing to balance or fix the shit hole wows pvp has become.this change is all smoke and mirrors,has anyone seen a post where blizz said they are doing this change to make/fix pvp for pvpers?=no.

    also these mods in here are making me [email protected] are so bias its not even funny."

    why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP? It's already broken to a point where it is not even worth trying to fix it."
    so hes saying wpvp is broken and blizz should not fix it =lmfao.so i guess the same could be said for all pvp in wow, because its in a bad bad spot atm,so blizz should not attempt to fix it,sure.

    and please people stop saying "omg hardly no1 gets herioc gear,you will not see any out in the world" lmfao.like i said before i left a PVE server years agao for a PVP one.when i got there to the pvp server,they were pugging heroic bosses,the same bosses that the top pve guilds on my old pve server could barely beat.also world boss have returned in mop right?dont entire raids show up to kill these things?but dont worry no pve geared players run around in the world.

    this change is just shit,plain and simple.something is wrong when your decked out in the best pvp gear in game and your weak compared to pve players,lmfao.hanging out outside SW/ORG-hey mr.pvper want to dule me?sure,just let me put on my pve gear first ok.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 09:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    A more interesting question is, should PvP actually be about the gear, or perhaps an even more interesting question, why do people suddenly care so much about world PvP? It's already broken to a point where it is not even worth trying to fix it.

    I think blizzard made it pretty clear they do not intend to completely ban PvE gear out of PvP, hence why PvE trinkets and such are a problem now. A problem that is hopefully fixed next patch with the changes and ilvl ceiling in structured PvP, where PvP gear will be superior in 95% of the cases.
    "A more interesting question is, should PvP actually be about the gear"

    want an even better question then that?why on earth should pveing be about gear and not about beating the npc?why on earth should pvp gear be weaker then pve gear?why on earth would pvers care if pvp gear was the same item level as pve gear?its itemized different right?so if pvp/pve gear is the same IL,a pvp gear player would still do less dps/healing then a pve gear player.

    the funny thing is,if pvp gear is a problem in pve and pve gear is a problem in pvp.why not only allow the gear types in there setting types.meaning pvp gear is not allowed in any pve instances and pve gear is not allowed in any pvp instances.and out in the world both gear types have the same stats.if a player tries using a piece of gear in the wrong setting,its gets grayed out.now that fair and easy to fix,not this gear scale BS they got going now.
    Last edited by meathead; 2013-04-20 at 01:47 PM.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Killing a few heroics isn't anywhere near as hard as you people are making it out to be.
    Killing a few heroic bosses won't make up the gap in PVP power, nor does it make you the player blizzard described, you won't be running into the top 5% of pve players all that often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Sadly, with those actors... the "XXX Adaptation" should really be called 50 shades of watch a different porno.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    Killing a few heroic bosses won't make up the gap in PVP power, nor does it make you the player blizzard described, you won't be running into the top 5% of pve players all that often.
    It doesn't become and more true by repetition. Even mediocre people are going to get their hands on heroic thunderforged gear, just not everyone is going to kill Lei-Shen/Ra-Den. Even now some 522 pieces are superior to PvP gear especially especially since there is no T2 anymore. Some 522 pieces socketed right (especially with ilevel upgrade coming back in 5.3) were already superior to their ilevel 512 PvP equivalents.
    You don't have to run into the top 5 to encounter people around ilevel 530+, hell that is possible with valor points alone coming upgrades.

    PvP power was there before, yet people from high ratings were already trying to find raids for PvE gear. It was seen as an issue and lead to the item ceiling. Nothing has changed since then in favor of PvP gear. In fact the polar opposite happened with PvE geared people getting another 25% resilience for free happened. The PvP power does nothing to help against people who have over one hundred thousand hp more than you, far higher main and secondary stats.

    If I give you a pay raise of 50% on your 5 dollar wage, you're still going to earn less than the guy who earned 10 dollars all along and didn't get a raise.

  13. #13
    WORLD PVP HAS ESSENTIALLY BEEN NO EXSITENT SINCE THEN END OF BC! this is a none issue.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    If I give you a pay raise of 50% on your 5 dollar wage, you're still going to earn less than the guy who earned 10 dollars all along and didn't get a raise.
    Right, which is why in 5.3 what Blizzard is going is giving you a 50% raise on your 5 dollar wage, and cutting the wage of the other guy down to 5 dollars without a raise at all. No more need for PvE gear, done.

    And as far as World PvP goes, it's not supposed to be fair. When you're in a non-competitive (non-ranked) environment in the open world in an MMO, the effort you've put into the game, whether it be from PvP or PvE should give you an advantage. When you're in an Arena/RBG, that's an e-sport style environment. When you're on Isle of Thunder trying to gank people, you're in an MMO; get used to it. I do both PvE and PvP, and I find it stupid that when I forget to put my PvP gear on for dailies and someone attacks me, I have zero chance of success because they do so much more damage than me, and are tougher. When this happens I'll usually rez, put my PvP gear on (because it's better than my average 521 PvE gear) and go roll the noob.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    I thought the whole world pvp aspect was meant to not be far. There's so many idiots who gank people with lesser gear or low characters and feel that its okay, but once they're on the receiving end of the stick it becomes all a sudden "World pvp is dead." The fact that pve players have a chance to put up a fight in an open world environment actually makes it better for the community as a whole. More people will be involved and perhaps people who've never pvp'd before may become interested.

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  16. #16
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    When you will stop complaint Blzzard says that World PVP isnt something who have to be fair.Seems lots of ppl miss to read these notes

  17. #17
    I'm also of the opinion that world pvp wasn't meant to be "fair", as it never has been in the past. Even before resilience was added to the game, world PvP was very rarely about having a fair fight. You'd always try to catch the other guy off guard, or have the same done to you.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    When you will stop complaint Blzzard says that World PVP isnt something who have to be fair.Seems lots of ppl miss to read these notes
    wtf is all this wpvp being fair shit you and the rest of the pvers keep taking about?no one is asking for wpvo to be fair,but rather for PVP not to be at a disadvantage because we are in pvp gear,thats all.go read my OP on this thread or better yet i quote it for you and you tell me what you think,ok?

    why not only allow the gear types in there setting types.meaning pvp gear is not allowed in any pve instances and pve gear is not allowed in any pvp instances.and out in the world both gear types have the same stats.if a player tries using a piece of gear in the wrong setting,its gets grayed out.now that fair and easy to fix,not this gear scale BS they got going now.

    see that i solved the how so called gear problem in wow .the only problem i see with this is that pvers would piss and moan because "their" gear would not longer be special.my idea would be fair and balanced,but its not going to happen because qq for pvers.

  19. #19
    here's a simple fix: PvP power is boosted by X amount against people with PvE gear, increased for each pve piece they have, only active outdoors. They already have a similar thing with battle fatigue.
    edit: or what meathead said. pve gear in pve, pvp gear in pvp, same ilvl outdoors.

  20. #20
    Is this really a huge issue? How many good pvp players will have that gear in wpvp and be ready for a fight?

    I could beat my whole HC guilds raiding team in a wpvp fight any day of the week. If I get to pick the fight when they do dailies? It's a done deal. THey are not good enough in pvp and will be caught by surprise, most likely not even have a pvp trinket on.

    If this was some sort of organized world pvp with some 15-20 peeps on each side, ready for a fight - it could be a different ball game but I highly doubt that will be the case.

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