1. #1

    Question Simcraft question: Stats weight

    Hi guys,

    Been talking to Eihwaz about my character and the points I could improve on.
    Skillwise I have some improvements to go trough (NT & Invocation uptime / better openers), but perhaps gearwise I could as well.
    I currently have 512.4 ilvl, am a frostmage and I'm wondering about how to determine my stats weight. I read alot about 1 int > 2 haste and vice versa, but how do I find out if my gear would actually benefit more from having more haste-gems/forges than I currently have, or not? I guess Simcraft should be able to provide me with the correct answer, but how do I find out?

    With the risk of being flamed for being a simcraft noob, I'm looking for a sort of step-to-step way how I can figure out (not once, but every day if I have to) what my ideal stats weights are. If I change my haste rating in AMR to 2.3 (read that somewhere on this forum) obviously I would have to regem alot. I would lose 1164 SP and 0.54% crit, but I would gain 5.08% haste. It sounds nifty, but is it? And also: Is it even possible to just change the stat weight of just 1 stat (haste in this case) or should that directly affect the other stats as well?

    TL;DR: I'm a simcraft noob and need to figure out all there is to know about stats weight simming. Please help!
    Last edited by Keejos; 2013-04-25 at 07:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    I forget the exact steps involved, I'm at work so I can't pull it up, but there is a checklist of stats you can have it sim for you, which includes damn near everything. Make sure to check all the vital mage ones, int, haste, crit and mastery.
    Have it sim, making sure to do 20K+ iterations to avoid as many variable outcomes as possible, and on the sim report it should show you the values of each. When I was around 512 ilvl and frost it was showing haste outweighing int at something like a 2.5-1 ratio(anything over 2-1 is a gain).

    I'm to figure the comment about changing the weights in AMR to 2.3 was about my response in another thread. That was for his personal case, as a 2.3 value for haste would put it over 2-1 on int. It is very much possible to change 1 stat weight without it drastically affecting your other stats. More haste will not cause the value of crit or mastery to rise much, as we already have a cap on crit and mastery is just one of those whatever/whenever stats.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-04-25 at 07:25 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  3. #3
    Thank you! Let me get three things straight for myself tho.

    First, whilst simming myself I import my current char/forge/gems/enchants from either Armory or AMR, right?
    So I hit 25000 iterations, select all the stats i'm interested in in the 'Scaling' tab and hit Simulate!, right? And when it's done I see the stats weight, is that correct? What I'm trying to understand for myself is how the stats weight gets calculated by Simcraft. I'm currently simming my toon. Let's say, for arguements sake, it will appear that 1 int > 2 haste. Why would that be different once I upgrade 1 or 2 more gearpieces? Won't it always be the case that 1 int > 2 haste? Appearantly not, but I don't understand why. I'm not a moron, really, and I sincerely have the feeling that once I will understand the basic concept of all this that I can do it on my own. Just need some help at the start.

    <3

    Secondly, does a higher stat weight on (f.ex) haste automaticly means that it will decrease the weight of another stat (f.ex crit or int)? Or don't they correlate?


    [Edit1]If I go to AMR and import my char, it gives me the following stat weights and will let me optimize my toon accordingly to those stats (I assume):

    Int: 4.41
    SP: 3.59
    Hit: 3.0
    Haste: 1.93
    Crit: 1.79
    Mastery: 1.65

    How does it (AMR) come up with these stat weights? Are they put in by default? Or are they actually based on my equipped gear? And if so, why would I get different results by simming it?[/Edit1]

    [Edit2]I'm finished simming my character. According to Simcraft (based on 25k iterations) my stats weight is/are:

    Int: 4.78
    SP: 3.83
    Hit: 4.41
    Haste: 2.62
    Crit: 1.81
    Mastery: 1.66

    So, if I understand correctly, 2 haste > 1 int for me.

    Should I now enter these values into AMR and hit optimize and reforge/enchant/gem accordingly to its output to have to optimal DPS?[/Edit2]
    Last edited by Keejos; 2013-04-25 at 07:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    Thank you! Let me get two things straight for myself tho. First, whilst simming myself I import my current char/forge/gems/enchants from either Armory or AMR, right? Armory
    So I hit 25000 iterations, select all the stats i'm interested in in the 'Scaling' tab and hit Simulate!, right?Yes And when it's done I see the stats weight, is that correct? You will see your stat weights along with other vital simmed info like DPET and such.What I'm trying to understand for myself is how the stats weight gets calculated by Simcraft. I'm currently simming my toon. Let's say, for arguements sake, it will appear that 1 int > 2 haste. Why would that be different once I upgrade 1 or 2 more gearpieces?It's mostly about hitting breakpoints. As you get closer to a haste breakpoint, such as another tick of NT, SIMC will value haste more than normal to try and push you to that point. There are other factors in play but that is usually the largest. Won't it always be the case that 1 int > 2 haste? Appearantly not, but I don't understand why.As you were thinking, all the stats tend to play off each other, gaining more of one may make another one less valuable or vice-versa. For example, if you suddenly get more crit and hit the crit cap, it's value will drop to almost nill while haste and mastery will both raise. The value of stats is ever changing with new gear hence why it is important to sim yourself regularly to verify your current gem/reforging path. I'm not a moron, really, and I sincerely have the feeling that once I will understand the basic concept of all this that I can do it on my own. Just need some help at the start.

    <3

    Secondly, does a higher stat weight on (f.ex) haste automaticly means that it will decrease the weight of another stat (f.ex crit or int)? Or don't they correlate?They do, but not to such a degree that simply changing your haste to a higher weight value will suddenly make mastery worth way more than crit or something like that. No matter how much more crit or mastery you get, haste will still be the king of secondary stats.
    ^That.
    Tenny ten ten.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-04-25 at 07:52 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  5. #5
    as posted elsewhere by me....

    Your own stat weights, go here: http://simulationcraft.org/

    Download the app
    Couple of things you want to change:
    - Iterations 10.000 minimum to get more trustworthy figures
    - player skill (perhaps)
    - Armory region (EU vs US)
    - buffs/debuffs (if you know your raid usually misses out on one or two)
    - make sure to tick Scaling for what ever you want scaled (int/hit/haste/mastery/crit/spell power)

    Then go to the import tab, find your char on the armory and click import
    Then click "Simulate", wait till all is done then find your stat weights.

    AMR's stat weights are I believe BIS stats as per sim craft/theory crafting at the start of the patch.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 07:53 AM ----------

    In any case the priority of Int > Hit > haste > crit (to about 22/23%) > mastery > more Crit is the most important one.

    The difference between gemming 160 Intellect vs 80 Intellect/160 Haste or 80 Intel/160 haste vs 320 Haste as at level of stat weights for frost is going to make a very minimal difference in your total gear setup.

    The priority is important in selecting gear, which will make you want Haste/Crit gear more than Hit/Mastery more than Crit/Mastery, which is why a lot of the Valor items will be an upgrade over your 496 gear because of the added Intellect but you can still get a very decent side grade from the hit/mastery crap to more proper hit/haste haste/crit gear.
    Last edited by namliam; 2013-04-25 at 07:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    @Keejos, as I suspected haste is 2-1 for you over int. You could go into AMR and put in all the stat weights from SimC, but really the only thing that is going to change for you is that it will favor pure haste gems over int/int+haste gems. Your crit is still second and your mastery is still third for other stats, so it will still value those the same, pretty much, as it already does.

    You can make it simple and just change the haste weight in AMR to 2.3, which will put it above int for you and get the same results as you would putting all the stats in.
    Also, the values it goes off are BiS SimC values, where as SimC is simming your values in your current gear, so it's more accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  7. #7
    Thank you both, that helps me alot. If I sim both (so current stats vs optimized after changing stat weight to 2 haste > 1 int, I see a ~400 DPS increase (137.3k to 137.7k dps, based on light movement fight), does that sound about right? Seems pretty margin, but then again, I didn't expect wonders in the first place, just going for optimal setup.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    Thank you both, that helps me alot. If I sim both (so current stats vs optimized after changing stat weight to 2 haste > 1 int, I see a ~400 DPS increase (137.3k to 137.7k dps, based on light movement fight), does that sound about right? Seems pretty margin, but then again, I didn't expect wonders in the first place, just going for optimal setup.
    On a single target fight that seems about right, maybe a bit low. Where it will really shine is fights like council, horridon, tortos and such where you can multi NT.
    Edit- That is also a best case scenario DPS gain. More than likely you will see better than a 400 dps gain on a single target, light movement fight, such as iron qon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    Thank you both, that helps me alot. If I sim both (so current stats vs optimized after changing stat weight to 2 haste > 1 int, I see a ~400 DPS increase (137.3k to 137.7k dps, based on light movement fight), does that sound about right? Seems pretty margin, but then again, I didn't expect wonders in the first place, just going for optimal setup.
    On my side it was a ~400dps increase too on simc but I saw a bigger difference on bosses that that.

    And when you'll get a 2nd RPPM trinket and/or meta gem now the fun begins (had mine yesterday)

    Do not hesitate to come here and ask questions even if you think they are silly, there are no stupid questions.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  10. #10
    Ironicly enough I vendored my LFR-version of Wushoolay's Final Choice (502ilvl) because I bought the SPA one and I was damn sure (unknowing I was back then) that my brand new shiny 522 VP trinket would be way more awesome and stronger than some LFR drop. Man, was I wrong. Kicking myself now for vendoring it... Just realized I might be able to get it back trough Item Restoration..

    /flying off to battle.net, brb :P

    Edit: so, silly me. I just restored the item, so tonight it will be as COD in my mailbox That would put me at 2 RPPM-trinkets. According to SimC I would gain a 3.7k DPS increase on single-target fight (if I'd regem 2 haste > 1int and equip Wushi-trinket
    Last edited by Keejos; 2013-04-25 at 08:34 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    Ironicly enough I vendored my LFR-version of Wushoolay's Final Choice (502ilvl) because I bought the SPA one and I was damn sure (unknowing I was back then) that my brand new shiny 522 VP trinket would be way more awesome and stronger than some LFR drop. Man, was I wrong. Kicking myself now for vendoring it... Just realized I might be able to get it back trough Item Restoration..

    /flying off to battle.net, brb :P

    Edit: so, silly me. I just restored the item, so tonight it will be as COD in my mailbox That would put me at 2 RPPM-trinkets. According to SimC I would gain a 3.7k DPS increase on single-target fight (if I'd regem 2 haste > 1int and equip Wushi-trinket
    Yeah the LFR trinkets are wicked strong right now, even for NM raiders .
    I'm looking to drop a second too because with the amount of haste I have now + the meta gem + VP trinket proc (throw bloodlust there for fun), its a loooot of haste.
    Pretty please Breath of the Hydra would you drop one day ! (Or cha-ye i'm not jealous )
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Yeah the LFR trinkets are wicked strong right now, even for NM raiders .
    I'm looking to drop a second too because with the amount of haste I have now + the meta gem + VP trinket proc (throw bloodlust there for fun), its a loooot of haste.
    Pretty please Breath of the Hydra would you drop one day ! (Or cha-ye i'm not jealous )
    But you would get less haste if you'd swap the VP trinket with BoH, right?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    But you would get less haste if you'd swap the VP trinket with BoH, right?
    Yes but it makes me GCD capped and it sucks . (Well I guess because I just tested it one time since I got my meta, saving the fun for later :P)
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keejos View Post
    But you would get less haste if you'd swap the VP trinket with BoH, right?
    I know for a lot of people, myself included, flat haste+int proc weighs better than flat int with a short haste proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  15. #15
    Appearantly I also sim higher using 502 Wushy instead of 522 VP trinket. So tonight I'll make the swap trinket-wise and will regem haste instead of int.
    Very interesting day sofar!

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