1. #1
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    SimCraft Weighting: Mastery>Haste as Fire For Some Reason

    Hello Everyone

    I know there have been ALOT of simcraft threads lately but after going through them I still can't figure this out.

    I got a new dagger, gloves and and ring all at once and after optimizing and simming, my new stat weights as Fire are as follows:

    Int------4.75
    SP-------3.59
    Crit------2.88
    Haste----2.29 (averaged)
    Mastery--2.44 (averaged; I ran multiple sims, see method)

    All Error is less than 0.09 (haste and mastery are even lower because of the average)

    Now before you go off and question whether I am using SimCraft right ect. at least look at my settings and method.

    Settings:

    SimCraft 520-7
    Iterations:25 000
    Lag:Low
    Length:450
    Vary Length:20%
    Fight Style: Light Movement

    Everything else is standard, all buffs are ticked, scaling for the stats shown above, normal deltas, scale delta is not centered and I am scaling over the default

    Method:
    1. I take the new gear that I just got and bring it into AskMrRobot
    2. I input stat weights from my previous sim (the sim of my old gear) into MrRobot and optimize my new gear.
    3. I export the optimized gear from MrRobot and take it to SimCraft (Note: I only take the gear section of the export as MrRobot seems to mess up the rest)
    4. I import my character from the armory and replace the gear section with the one MrRobot gave me. (Yes I ensure I am in the right talent spec for the import)
    5. I run the simulation.
    6. Upon seeing that mastery is weighted higher than haste I bump my iterations up to 50 000 and ran the sim twice more to minimize error (So 125k iterations in total).
    7. The averaged result is the same so I completely re-optimize my gear in MrRobot just to see what would happen and then resim.
    8. As expected my dps went down and haste is weighted well above both crit and mastery.
    9. I manually started reforging small amounts of haste into mastery (in MrRobot) resiming each time.
    10. Mastery continues to be weighted more heavily than haste and my simed dps goes down and then up then down but never goes higher than my normal stat priority optimized gear.
    11. Haste finally overtakes mastery when I have converted 1780 haste to mastery and lost about 1000 theoretical dps (roughly as I was converting haste to mastery in chunks).

    I can post the import file if anyone wants it but its quite long so I think I will leave it out for the moment. (Shame we don't have spoiler tags that would make something like this more readable without taking up so much room... hint hint.... nudge nudge =P)

    I'm at a loss. I've been using SimCraft/MrRobot ever since Rawr stopped being supported and believe myself to be fairly proficient with the program. However, if someone sees something wrong with how I am using SimCraft/MrRobot I would love to know as I can so absolutely no reason for SimCraft to be giving mastery more weight. It's not like Mastery has break points (that I know of).
    Last edited by Me222; 2013-04-25 at 04:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Legendary meta causes mastery to become stronger due to you global capping during bloodlust, especially if you're using the badge trinket.

    Unless you're close to a dot breakpoint there's not much reason to reforge haste after crit as fire anymore.

  3. #3
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    That would make sense but I don't have the ledgendary meta yet and simcraft is reporting a dps loss when I swap haste to mastery

  4. #4
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me222 View Post
    That would make sense but I don't have the ledgendary meta yet and simcraft is reporting a dps loss when I swap haste to mastery
    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    Legendary meta causes mastery to become stronger due to you global capping during bloodlust, especially if you're using the badge trinket.

    Unless you're close to a dot breakpoint there's not much reason to reforge haste after crit as fire anymore.
    Except for the fact that Fire's coefficient is now in effect and the uptime is so low that it doesn't matter...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Except for the fact that Fire's coefficient is now in effect and the uptime is so low that it doesn't matter...
    Check your sources first but Vykina commented on it and i can confirm that the legendary meta gem has an uptime between 20-28% uptime (depending on RNG)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyspeed View Post
    Check your sources first but Vykina commented on it and i can confirm that the legendary meta gem has an uptime between 20-28% uptime (depending on RNG)
    Don't think the EU realms have had the rolling restarts that america got last night that implemented the coefficients

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyspeed View Post
    Check your sources first but Vykina commented on it and i can confirm that the legendary meta gem has an uptime between 20-28% uptime (depending on RNG)
    Believe me he/we checked

    Its seems it should be close to 10% now for fire.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Believe me he/we checked

    Its seems it should be close to 10% now for fire.
    So it procs...three times in a five minute fight?

  9. #9
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Believe me he/we checked

    Its seems it should be close to 10% now for fire.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20888089 for anyone who doesn't believe me, feel free to check the logs I posted in the discussion thread.
    10% is if you're lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by I-Swizzle-I View Post
    So it procs...three times in a five minute fight?
    Not even. I did 2 tests in 6m, one got 3 and one got 4. My 20m test (which involved using Scorch and Frost Armor to over-compensate for the lack of Spell Haste raid buff) got 11 proccs.

    But if you guys want a discussion about it, we have a thread on that

    (And I'm still waiting for someone to make a post on the official DD thread, or somehow contact a Dev. GC likes to ignore my tweets cuz he knows I'm an angry person :<)


    OT @OP: Really weird that Mastery would be valued above Haste... I know that between plateaus, Haste isn't that great, but Mastery scales too low to be of any use if it takes away from your other 3 secondary stats (FREE Mastery is amazing, e.g., Primordius). It should always be Haste Plateau (if reeeeeeeally close to one) > Crit >>>>> Haste > Mastery
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-04-20 at 05:22 PM.

  10. #10
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    I could see how mastery sims out higher than haste.

    When you think about it, you're basically (between haste plateaus) just getting haste for faster casting. How many extra casts are you going to get? For fire, an extra cast can mean up to 400-500k damage because of hot streaks, but at the same time, what if you don't get a crit? That's just a little extra damage that gets rolled into your ignite. Personally I wouldn't use Mastery, but I can see why when you get down to the math behind it Mastery comes out slightly on top.
    d=(^_^)z
    Hondoom#1436

  11. #11
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    The force of derailment is strong with this thread. =P

    However thanks for the info about the meta. I know there was some doubt cast on whether the meta was even better than the burning primal and then the PPM constant for each spec was introduced and at that point I just lost track of pretty much anything to do with the gem.

    Anyway back on topic.

    OT @OP: Really weird that Mastery would be valued above Haste... I know that between plateaus, Haste isn't that great, but Mastery scales too low to be of any use if it takes away from your other 3 secondary stats (FREE Mastery is amazing, e.g., Primordius). It should always be Haste Plateau (if reeeeeeeally close to one) > Crit >>>>> Haste > Mastery
    Generally that is what I go with. The main thing I like SimCraft for is checking if 2 Crit > 1 Int still (which it has been for ages now). It just concerns me that simcraft thinks Mastery>Haste when the program itself reports a dps loss when I make that conversion.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Well, isn't it that you should go for haste only if you are able to reach some breakpoint for your dot ticks?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZmFYa0E#gid=39

    Sim may report mastery as more valuable between the breakpoints, but if you get rid of too many haste and get below said breakpoint, it would yield an overall dps loss...

  13. #13
    Aren't 'common' sims that put haste above mastery ran on patchwerk fight style settings? If so, that could be the reason in this case mastery is above haste as this sim was done for light movement.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilch View Post
    Aren't 'common' sims that put haste above mastery ran on patchwerk fight style settings? If so, that could be the reason in this case mastery is above haste as this sim was done for light movement.
    Haste is better with RPPM trinkets and the meta because it increases their proc rates.

  15. #15
    First off, I play as Frost.

    Simcraft is reporting the same thing for me (us.battle. net /wow/en/character/deathwing/Fyzzle/advanced). I mocked up a mastery regem by entering the mastery>crit simcraft scaling into askmrrobot.com and exported it back to simcraft. My numbers went down significantly (~5k) and simcraft then placed haste >> mastery in its new scaling.

    I'm guessing that a full mastery reforge/regem was too extreme? I suppose its worth doing minor crit - mastery reforges to find the sweet spot. Anyone have a method for this?

  16. #16
    High Overlord Liveet's Avatar
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    I recently just simmed my mage too. And it showed that Mastery was waaaay better than Haste. It showed: Int:5,87, Crit:3,97. Mastery: 3,79 and Haste: 2,81.

    That is a big gap between the two for sure. Is it really worth to do it? Or is it SimC trolling me?

    I guess that it is possible for Mastery to pass Haste, since they buffed the Meta Gem. ( My Uptime last night was 20%). But what do you guys think?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...ses&boss=67977
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iveet/advanced

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire
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    I dunno what's wrong or right, but I already reforge into mastery after 5036 haste cap.
    Hitcap > Hastecap 5036 > Crit > Mastery > Haste ... that's what I do. Maybe it's worth to reforge to the next haste caps for NT or even CB_glpyhed with GS 520+ which were round about 6k and 7k haste (can't remember exactly and have no access @work).
    Fire Mage 14/14H 10+25m <Integrity> @ EU-Eredar

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    I dunno what's wrong or right, but I already reforge into mastery after 5036 haste cap.
    Hitcap > Hastecap 5036 > Crit > Mastery > Haste ... that's what I do. Maybe it's worth to reforge to the next haste caps for NT or even CB_glpyhed with GS 520+ which were round about 6k and 7k haste (can't remember exactly and have no access @work).
    I've started taking this approach but reforging excess haste/hit into mastery after the 5273 cap. This always gives you the 24th tick of glyphed combustion and with the 2pc bonus of 1800 haste gives you the 25th tick of combustion(so every other combustion gets an extra tick).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

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