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  1. #301
    How popular is world PvP outside of ganking anyway?
    I haven't heard of any organized world PvP since late BC/early Wrath to be honest, which makes me think that world PvP really isn't that big of a thing nowadays.
    And that could be credited to most PvP servers being dominated by one faction, making world PvP impossible.
    To be honest, i wouldn't shed a tear if Blizzard decided to turn the PvP servers into PvE/RP servers.

  2. #302
    No, the middle ground you want already exists in a server type. Its called PVE servers. THAT is the middle ground between NO pvp and ALL pvp. So go there and have fun whenever you want.
    No, there is no middle ground. It's either 'I don't want to pvp out in the world, so I roll a pve server' or 'I want to get ganked by players I can't possibly hope to ever kill out in the world, so I roll a pvp server.' There is no 'I want to engage only players my level out in the world because I want a challenging but fair fight without the interference of some random ass hat level 90 who just happens to see a free kill.'

    When Blizzard came up with the server rules, everyone was a level 1 player embarking on a long journey to explore Azeroth. Back then, mount training didn't even happen until level 40, cost 100g, and was something you had to save up for. Back then, there weren't even any quests or dungeons past level 40, and the only way to hit the level cap was to grind on mobs all day.

    When those pvp rules were created, the most common situation of world pvp was a bunch of lowbies who just happened to be leveling and engaging in pvp. You didn't have level 60s flying around looking for lowbies to gank, and the few level 60s you DID see, didn't just come up and one shot you and then teabag you. Instead, they had to watch out who they tired to gank because a group of lowbies could just turn around and kill them instead.

    If level 60 was still the cap, if gear in general was crappy blues and greens that came from dungeons and quests, and if being level 60 was still a rare achievement, then you would have a point in disagreeing with us. However, since the game has changed, since Flying has been added, since level 90 character have 50-130 times the HP and other stats as low level characters, something has to change. Something has to give.

    Otherwise, the world will continue to be a dead zone where only the most uninformed noobs venture out there to be killed because they simply don't know any better.

    Its just dismissing any real arguments here
    You mean like the 'pvp happened on a pvp server suck it up and L2P noobs' argument? Because that's a well reasoned and thought out argument, I'm sure. Being able to gank lowbies doesn't make any sense any more. You can't even come up with a good reason why it should be allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerfenus View Post
    How popular is world PvP outside of ganking anyway?
    I haven't heard of any organized world PvP since late BC/early Wrath to be honest, which makes me think that world PvP really isn't that big of a thing nowadays.
    And that could be credited to most PvP servers being dominated by one faction, making world PvP impossible.
    To be honest, i wouldn't shed a tear if Blizzard decided to turn the PvP servers into PvE/RP servers.
    why does pvp have to be organized? if I wanted `organized` pvp id do bgs or arena...I find this incredibly dull. I much prefer to make my own pvp out in the open world.....Ill have fun invading a low level area as a high level player and see how long I can keep up the kill spree until someone brings in the Calvary and hunt me out.

    Ill have fun tracking and hunting opp faction players of the same level when I run into them...I stike when they are least prepared and waste them before disappearing into the shadows.

    Sometimes when im in the mood for all out warfare ill pop all my cool downs and go steaming into someone I come across.

    THIS is world pvp, I like doing it my own way, making my own pvp, using the environment even for advantage,

    yes 40 man city raids were fun back in the day but you dont need organisation to make world pvp fun....in fact the more chaotic and random the better, never knowing who your going to run into, what there skill level is, doing it by yourself with no healer etc and adjusting to the situation takes more skill then any preset everyone knowing the best class combos and using them boring arena style pvp in this game.

    And when you dont want a challenge and you just want to slay....thats what ganking is for.

    pvp servers we can do it whatever way we like, you guys seem to want to take that freedom away from players, thats why I have such a problem with you, you dont like me ganking you, fine log onto your damn main and hunt me down dont come on the forums whining like a carebear!

  4. #304
    No nothing has to give at all. Its fine the way it is. Don't like pvp servers? Don't roll on them. You are trying to take away a mechanic many many people are fine with. If pvp servers were so terrible, they would be on the decline. But thats simply not true.

    You are ignoring the middle ground. You can flag yourself on a pve server and fight when and where you want. If there is a 90 rolling around, ignore him and don't flag.

    You are also wrong about the whole questing past 40 thing.

    Yes, there have been many fine arguments that include "its pvp on a pvp server." Its a 100% legitimate argument. You know why? You chose to be there. You choose to continue to play there. I don't need to defend anything. Just refute you, which many people have done to the Op and yourself. You know where you can't gank lowbies? PVE servers. You are trying to take something away because you can't handle it. You know what the mature, and more logical thing to do would be? Switch servers. I'm 100% fine with being ganked. I don't corpse camp lowbies. So why the fuck are you trying to punish me and take away my enjoyment? Who do you think you are? Grow up, or grow a pair.

    You are like the old housewives in the 90's trying to ban explicit music, because you don't like it. If you don't like cursing in music, don't listen. But who the hell do you think you are to try to take away something from everyone else in the entire world or WoW community.

    Again, you have many options, but like a child you want to stomp your feet and have this game only cater to YOU. You can do BG/Arena/World BGS or just try pvping in level 90 zones. You can roll pve and flag yourself when you see an even leveled opponent. You can deflag yourself when someone starts camping you. THERE IS YOUR MIDDLE GROUND. Are you level 30 in STV? want to pick a fight with someone? Well flag yourself and see what happens! I fyou both consent, pvp will ensue. If a high level shows up, wait the 5 minutes to deflag and BOOM no more ganking problems.

    Why does something have to give? Why does something have to change? You know what I'd like to see changed? I would like for you and the Op to stop whining and join a PVE server and everything would be the better. Why don't you give in and do it?

  5. #305
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    No, there is no middle ground. It's either 'I don't want to pvp out in the world, so I roll a pve server' or 'I want to get ganked by players I can't possibly hope to ever kill out in the world, so I roll a pvp server.' There is no 'I want to engage only players my level out in the world because I want a challenging but fair fight without the interference of some random ass hat level 90 who just happens to see a free kill.'
    This is incorrect. Your first option, "I don't want to PvP out in the world", and your third, "I want to engage only players my level out in the world because I want a challenging and fair fight", those are both PvE servers.

    You can freely flag yourself for PvP at any time, on a PvE server. Your first option only exists as a separate creature if there were some server type where you could never PvP in the world, ever. That server type does not exist. There are only PvE servers, where you can choose to PvP whenever you like, or PvP servers, where you're automatically always flagged for PvP.

    When those pvp rules were created, the most common situation of world pvp was a bunch of lowbies who just happened to be leveling and engaging in pvp. You didn't have level 60s flying around looking for lowbies to gank, and the few level 60s you DID see, didn't just come up and one shot you and then teabag you. Instead, they had to watch out who they tired to gank because a group of lowbies could just turn around and kill them instead.
    As someone who leveled up plenty during Vanilla, the only bit you're correct about is the "flying around" part. They just rode around on epic mounts that were way faster than any ground mount a non-60 could have, looking for lowbies to one-shot. Which they absolutely could, unless you were closer in level, like a group of level 48s or some such.

    All that's happened in regards to levels is that the power level has continued to scale up, as you'd expect, with additional levels added to the game.

    Otherwise, the world will continue to be a dead zone where only the most uninformed noobs venture out there to be killed because they simply don't know any better.
    Plenty of people still quest these days, even on PvP servers with CRZ. It was faster, for me, to quest my way to 90, rather than using dungeons, post-CRZ, even with all the ganking people are complaining about. I only hit a few hiccups in a couple zones; Blasted Lands and Mount Hyjal. Everything else was smooth sailing.

    You mean like the 'pvp happened on a pvp server suck it up and L2P noobs' argument? Because that's a well reasoned and thought out argument, I'm sure. Being able to gank lowbies doesn't make any sense any more. You can't even come up with a good reason why it should be allowed.
    They don't need a "good reason". If you don't like it, play on a PvE server. That's how the server system has been intended to work since launch. That hasn't changed, in any way.

  6. #306
    this question can be answered by another question.
    If you get killed as a lvl 30 something by a lvl 90 whatever, he/she most likely do it because it ammuses him. so why would it not be allowed, just because 50% of the people involved don't like it?
    this has been around since vanilla. but they fixed it in tbc or wrath (don't remember wich patch allowed you to transfer from pve-pvp). don't like getting killed by other players in unfair situations? lvl on a pve realm, then transfer to a pvp realm when you are max lvl. oooooor, OOOOOOOOR, just stay at the pve realm and you never have to worry about other people getting the upper hand, cause you can always be the first to attack, as long as you don't have /pvp on. if some1 else is activated for pvp, you simply open on him, and you will have the upper hand, kinda like being higher level rly. this suddenly got to be alot more than just answering a question with a question. but rly, be creative and you won't be having to write whiny posts on the forums every other day

  7. #307
    Just because you rolled on a pvp server does not mean the game should fill your zone up with bored 90s (that are not on your server) that will spawncamp you as soon as they see you.
    N

  8. #308
    So this is a one sided argument thread that no matter what we say will the OP agree with. It's pointless and its him telling us "facts" he doesn't want to hear what we have to say.

  9. #309
    I never got why they didn't want to improve the game with some kind of dmg scaling, higher lvls would still have an advantage with gear and unlocked abilities.

    Probably the same reason why they rarely balance the game below max lvl, that the game isn't worth it.

    Dmg scaling should make the world more alive, less of a need to lvl up as fast as possible and hide in instances. Personally I miss decent world pvp, still happens but so very rare.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I know what to do when that happens, the question still remains why not actually do something against it? Nobody likes it, and people always complain about it.
    The person doing the killing likes it. The person dying is the one doing all the complaining. Sometimes it's hoping that lowbie will log into their main and come looking and maybe even bring friends. Sometimes it's boredom. Sometimes peoples just like being dicks. $15 is $15. You want a water and a salad, I'm getting them wings and a beer.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellesarr View Post
    Just because you rolled on a pvp server does not mean the game should fill your zone up with bored 90s (that are not on your server) that will spawncamp you as soon as they see you.
    My friend, you are so false assuming that people who gank you do that because of boreness and having nothing else to do. Will you somehow understand that ablility to gank other people is the main reason people play pvp servers? Me, personally, is killing everyone on sight every here and there (with a small exception of female characters with nice names), and my biggest sorrow is that I can't kill some people of my own faction. No, I don't gank 24/7, but when I travel somewhere from point A to point B, everything in middle that is red will die, period, no matter what levels are them. You can dislike this all you want, my friend, but with rolling on pvp server you've accepted the rules. And you've been warned about that.
    Also. There is nothing wrong with idea of damage scaling. But, I'm quite sure, even if there was damage scaling, people would still whine about them being ganked here and there.
    Last edited by l33t; 2013-04-21 at 10:36 PM.

  12. #312
    Id just like to end my participation in this thread by giving a big fuck you to anyone trying to whine about pvp on a pvp server....you dont like it as said many many times before (but it appears your to thick as pigshit to listen) LEAVE....simple as, the rest of us enjoy ganking, we get ganked to...and we dont whine about it because we choose pvp knowing there was a chance of that happening.

    Now stop pretending your a special little snowflake, stop going way over the top talking about things like bullying etc (which is incredibly disrespectful btw to people who really suffer from such a thing in real life that you equate there pain with your character dying on a video game) and overall just stop with the damn crying, this is life not everything is around to suit you not everyone is going to be nice to you, if you cannot come to peace with that concept you have issues.

    But dont bring your attitude here trying to tell other people how to play there game theyve paid for simply because your butthurt that you died and had to spend 10 seconds running from a graveyard.

    If your on a pvp server get on with it like the rest of us, if you have a problem fuck off to pve simple as.

  13. #313
    It doesn't matter. Even if they had a sort of damage or health scaling, these kinds of people would still whine. Unless they can kill the level 90's 100% of the time as level 30's they will whine about getting ganked on a pvp server... again... every single desire the OP has can be fixed by rolling on a pve server. You can pvp whenever you want there. But its a 2 way street.

    Thats the middle ground. Thats the point of pve servers, for people that don't want to be always susceptible to ganks. They can choose when and where they pvp. Or, if that isn't enough to sate your small appetite, you can do BG's where you are guaranteed to only fight people within your level area.

    Please Blizzard, keep your integrity, don't sell out even more to whiners.

  14. #314
    Again. Per zone level and gear scaling.

    Problem not solved, but largely dealt with. The bads who claim that pvp is supposed to be 'dangerous' (lmao) will still have that element, and low levels will have a step towards parity.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  15. #315
    Warchief Galbrei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I know, it's a PvP server. And I want to play on a PvP server. But I see no sense in having high level characters be able to kill lower level characters. Nobody plays on a PvP server because he wants to be killed by a level 90 player at level 30. People play on a PvP server to do compelling world PvP, and that isn't the case when a level 90 character ganks low level characters. There is not a single good thing this brings and taking away the ability to attack players that are, let's say, more than 5-10 levels below you would not cause any harm to PvP servers.
    Please stop speaking for everyone else, you're not WoW's spokesperson. I for one welcome the danger of being ganked while leveling an alt. I'm not going to lie and say it makes me happy getting killed by someone many lvls above me, but I enjoy the immersion and having the game artificially block stronger people from killing my character would be worse than the few seconds corpse run imo.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Again. Per zone level and gear scaling.

    Problem not solved, but largely dealt with. The bads who claim that pvp is supposed to be 'dangerous' (lmao) will still have that element, and low levels will have a step towards parity.
    Except, there is no problem. If you don't want to get ganked, switch to a pve server. That would fix all your problems.

  17. #317
    It used to be possible to threaten and kill someone 10 or more levels above you with intelligent tactics and enough numbers. It was enormously fun to level on a PVP server.
    Sadly a number of changes now make it such that you're lucky if you can even dent someone who is 1 or 2 levels above you:

    1. Gear inflation: level 89 characters have around half the hitpoints of a level 90. Level 85 has around half that. 90s can 1 or 2 shot a level 89.

    2. Self healing: just about every class can now self heal at a rate that means a level 89 cannot even cause the health of a 90 to go down, let alone stand a chance of killing him.

    3. Flying mounts: If the lowbies actually get a group together to fight back, their foe simply takes flight and waits until he can pick them off one at a time.

    4. PVP gear: pvp gear is sufficiently powerful that it can take a group of equal level PVE-geared characters to even scratch you.

    5. PVP specs: some specs are good at PVP and others are unable to take part in any meaningful way.

    Points 3, 4 and 5 ruin even equal-level PVP, making sure that the only people who actively participate are gankers wearing PVP gear, in a PVP spec, jumping targets engaging in PVE in a PVE spec with PVE gear when conditions are favourable to the ganker.

    Either those things need to change, or something else does. Otherwise PVP servers don't serve a whole lot of purpose, except to sucker people in to having to fork out for a server transfer.
    Last edited by Saeviomage; 2013-04-22 at 03:39 AM.

  18. #318
    None of those things "has" to change at all. What COULD change is you being on pvp servers. GG.

  19. #319
    because u can go pve servers
    Last edited by Proudefender; 2013-04-22 at 04:05 AM.

  20. #320
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Except, there is no problem. If you don't want to get ganked, switch to a pve server. That would fix all your problems.
    i gank lvl 90s all the time

    do you know how many people look at the state of pvp and say "fuck it i want no part of that bullshit" but are still stuck dragonslaying on a pvp server?

    i think that it would be a great idea
    they say that doors open up soon as you find the missing key
    that’s probably why I’m in this bitch shining
    jump up in the sky and put the stars into alignment
    I rep the ATF in case you need to be reminded
    and the bandwagon's full but you can try an' run behind it

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