1. #1

    Can someone please explain..

    Where is Blizzard's logic? We had Warriors nerfed at the start of the expac for stupid damage with cd's up and globaling everyone, now they're terrible and no one wants them at high rated arena -.- Yet Mages have the same or arguably better burst and that's fine? What's the deal? Mages are apparently outside the balancing threshold, it doesn't matter how high they hit because it's fine?

    Seriously, watch the video below and look how ridiculous the damage is, killing people in like 2 seconds sometimes without cd's. Yet my Warrior has been nerfed to oblivion because of this with cd's up, yet Mages with no cd's do the same. Is anyone else extremely frustrated by this, I can't play the class I love because it's been butchered and it was the same the last damn expansion. Do they have any clue at all?


  2. #2
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Well they nerf hunters mobility and remove some spells caus we got to much CC , yet mages got everything they need in their arsenal,

    Silence
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    CD
    Thread Lower
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    Hero
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    Root
    Instant cast
    Beeing imune to DMG spell
    AOE
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    So yes this has bin this way ever since ghostcrawler got hired in wotlk. Get used to it.
    Stuff

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Castozor's Avatar
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    It´s not just mages either. Rogues are also apparently unable to be balanced fairly since forever. Harsh, poorly thought out, blanket nerfs hit just about every class from time to time but not mages and rogues. For some reason Blizz always tries to be careful with nerfs to those because it would not be fair to make them just a tad worse than others, whereas dps shamans for example get hit with nerf after nerf because they can´t balance resto properly.

  4. #4
    Grunt
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    I hate Mages as much as the next guy but some things I don't agree with:

    1)When TfB was stacking to 5 stacks it wasn't on par with or below Mage burst, it blew it out of the water. Warrior burst at the start of MoP was absolutely bonkers.

    2)Warriors weren't nerfed to the point of nobody playing them "at the start" of MoP. They were nerfed to the point of nobody playing them in 5.2. It has more to do with Warriors losing their ability to stay alive and their control than their damage. People still loved Warriors when TfB was 3 stacks but when their stun CD was doubled, fear CD was increased by 30 seconds, and they went from taking -25% damage on top of resilience to taking full damage minus resilience then people didn't want to play them.

    As it is now, from my understanding, Warriors have to choose between doing damage and melting when swapped to and switching to defensive stance to stay alive and doing no damage because they're rage starved. As it is now, you can sit on a Warrior the whole game and make it a 2v3 since that Warrior doesn't have the rage to hurt you if he swapped stances or he's dead (or healer is oom) because he decided not to swap stances.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Azureqt's Avatar
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    Mages are okay in my opinion (at least from what i've experience thusfar in arena being a holy pally). The mage in that video also picked up the berserk buff in the beginning too, and he's probably playing vs under geared opponents.

    Shadowpriests are hands down ridiculous, and hunters piss me off to a great extent as well. There is no need for hunters to be able to purge things...

  6. #6
    while i do agree mage burst is stupid, so is hunter burst, and rogue burst,. also all 3 have a bit to much cc if you ask me,. and Dk's also have silly dmg, and double grip is just pretty damn anoying and retarded.

    don't act like warriors are completly useless there are actually skilled warriors who sit at 2200+, there is even a rank 2 team with a warrior in. and i've only checked EU Ladders.

    Personally i think warriors are about fine,. the problem is really that other classes is not fine, and the reason "no one wants" warriors for high rating, is simply because you can play better comps, not because warriors are bad, just other classes are better, if you slightly nerfed above mentioned classes, and brought them down a bit, i think arena overall would be way more enjoyable and warriors even more viable than they are.

    just my opinion on the subject.

  7. #7
    Was thinking the same yesterday when I got globalled by a Mage in a 3s game during a Deep Freeze >_>

    ... And they are doing the same thing with rogue, absurdly OP but no nerf incoming for them... but hunters or warriors... if they are OP, they must be nerfed to the ground
    Victory to the Alliance !

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Auspice View Post
    I hate Mages as much as the next guy but some things I don't agree with:

    1)When TfB was stacking to 5 stacks it wasn't on par with or below Mage burst, it blew it out of the water. Warrior burst at the start of MoP was absolutely bonkers.

    2)Warriors weren't nerfed to the point of nobody playing them "at the start" of MoP. They were nerfed to the point of nobody playing them in 5.2. It has more to do with Warriors losing their ability to stay alive and their control than their damage. People still loved Warriors when TfB was 3 stacks but when their stun CD was doubled, fear CD was increased by 30 seconds, and they went from taking -25% damage on top of resilience to taking full damage minus resilience then people didn't want to play them.

    As it is now, from my understanding, Warriors have to choose between doing damage and melting when swapped to and switching to defensive stance to stay alive and doing no damage because they're rage starved. As it is now, you can sit on a Warrior the whole game and make it a 2v3 since that Warrior doesn't have the rage to hurt you if he swapped stances or he's dead (or healer is oom) because he decided not to swap stances.
    Getting 5 stacks of tfb was completely different, it was something that required the stars to align perfectly and the rng gods to be on your side, it pretty much never happened. Obviously when it did, it was absurdly overpowered so needed to be nerfed. Yet Mages burst doesn't require any rng or anything, so where is the excuse for that?

    As always, Warriors are overnerfed. There are perfectly justifiable solutions that top players recommended when everyone knew the nerfs were coming and written on the forums and everything, yet they were completely ignored and Blizzard's arrogance of "we always know best" took over. After that they were nerfed again and now they may as well be deleted from the game since there is always something better to go with.

    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    while i do agree mage burst is stupid, so is hunter burst, and rogue burst,. also all 3 have a bit to much cc if you ask me,. and Dk's also have silly dmg, and double grip is just pretty damn anoying and retarded.

    don't act like warriors are completly useless there are actually skilled warriors who sit at 2200+, there is even a rank 2 team with a warrior in. and i've only checked EU Ladders.

    Personally i think warriors are about fine,. the problem is really that other classes is not fine, and the reason "no one wants" warriors for high rating, is simply because you can play better comps, not because warriors are bad, just other classes are better, if you slightly nerfed above mentioned classes, and brought them down a bit, i think arena overall would be way more enjoyable and warriors even more viable than they are.

    just my opinion on the subject.
    If the team is taking a Warrior then they are voluntarily gimping themselves, other classes can do better in nearly every situation. Been through every BG and there's an average of 2 Warriors in the top 50, and that's *normally* near the bottom (below 2k rating). You are entitled to your opinion but surely if other classes can do better than a Warrior in every comp, then they need a buff or other classes need to be nerfed, yes? Yet Rogues and Mages are maintaining their god status and nothing is happening to fix this.

  9. #9
    25% Def stance is supposed to come back with a 10% to Battle stance which will be really nice. Warrior Damage isn't bad when in Battle Stance. It just gets depleted in Def stance. Also to use some of our D CD's we have to swap to a shield which puts out no dps at all. I think 5.3 will bring Warriors back a bit, wish the fear was a 1min CD though.

  10. #10
    A video of someone destroying people in Silvershards is a bit silly to use as any sort of reference. Over the weekend I'd kill people on my Resto Druid in there who were barely over 300K HP with Stam buffs.

    EDIT: Watching the video, he fought a DK who had 375K HP while in Blood Presence. Rogue with 360K, Monk with 349K, etc. He fought a lot of under-geared puggies with minimal resilience so basing anything off this video by ways of "Mages are OP" is just silly.
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-04-22 at 05:34 PM.

  11. #11
    It's true mage burst and cc is retarded but he was killing a lot of undergeared noobs.

  12. #12
    The Patient
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    Please you should refrain from calling another class broken for doing decent in a non-rated SSM. I bet OP would be frusterated if i posted a video of me going 39-0 in AB on my Warlock.
    I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranig View Post
    Please you should refrain from calling another class broken for doing decent in a non-rated SSM. I bet OP would be frusterated if i posted a video of me going 39-0 in AB on my Warlock.
    Or seeing as the OP is a Warrior, we could show videos of Bajheera destroying people in unranked BGs.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranig View Post
    Please you should refrain from calling another class broken for doing decent in a non-rated SSM. I bet OP would be frusterated if i posted a video of me going 39-0 in AB on my Warlock.
    Warlocks happen to be flying under the radar. The class as a whole is right up there with hunters, mages, rogues and dks in how overpowered as shit it is.
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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunkyman View Post
    Where is Blizzard's logic? We had Warriors nerfed at the start of the expac for stupid damage with cd's up and globaling everyone, now they're terrible and no one wants them at high rated arena -.- Yet Mages have the same or arguably better burst and that's fine? What's the deal? Mages are apparently outside the balancing threshold, it doesn't matter how high they hit because it's fine?

    Seriously, watch the video below and look how ridiculous the damage is, killing people in like 2 seconds sometimes without cd's. Yet my Warrior has been nerfed to oblivion because of this with cd's up, yet Mages with no cd's do the same. Is anyone else extremely frustrated by this, I can't play the class I love because it's been butchered and it was the same the last damn expansion. Do they have any clue at all?
    I don't know how you're actually trying to compare live mage damage to TFB warriors, but they're really not in the same league. Warriors with 3+ stacks could use a bunch of cooldowns (off the gcd) and literally global you. The mage burst you're showing here requires setup, is much more visible, and is so much easier to counter on top of actually doing nowhere near the same kind of burst.

    I'm not sure if you're unfamiliar with how mages work in general or just bitter that your class was incorrectly nerfed and ruined yet again, but what's this guy is doing isn't surprising or exceptional. First, look at this guy's gear. I know he's fully geared and upgraded from last season, and probably has a good chunk of tyrannical gear too. He's fighting people clearly not even done with their honor sets. I wouldn't put it past this guy to gem pvp power either, making his damage that much more effective. Second, although I just skipped through the video I didn't notice any healers on the alliance side. Healers make a bigger difference against a mage than most other classes, most of all warriors. Where for you a healer restores the damage you do, a healer can actually stop a lot of a mage's damage from happening at all. Dispelling a deep freeze, frost bomb, or even a nova can hurt a lot, let alone what can be done through purging FoF, brainfreeze, veins, alter time, etc. Lastly, most of the players he's killing are just bad. Of those first four he took down, one DK used IBF. Neither used shell. The moonkin didn't barkskin. The warlock used nothing. Nobody trinketed anything or used any CC. For the rest of the game, this mage kites half the team, avoids damage, and actually uses defensive abilities while the other team doesn't use half their spellbooks. Of course he's going to slaughter them.

    Mages have always been like this. They're simply designed in such a way that they're too effective against uncoordinated, undergeared, or incompetent players. In a coordinated team scenario (i.e. arena) when dispels, interrupts, and CC are used properly they're so much less effective that some seasons they're actually on the weak side while the general community keeps complaining about how OP they are. They could probably use a redesign on some mechanics to balance that out, but for now if you don't like it you're welcome to try a class in that situation.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Warlocks happen to be flying under the radar. The class as a whole is right up there with hunters, mages, rogues and dks in how overpowered as shit it is.
    So because of this video where a totally geared out mage kills scrubs with 350k HP (and some horrible players as well), five classes are overpowered? Plus you didn't even mention Shadow Priests or Mist Weavers who dominate in BGs either?

    Warriors are bad for what, one point release (5.2) and it's like the sky is falling.
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-04-22 at 07:56 PM.

  17. #17
    The video is an example, guys. I'm well aware it's not 6000 rated arena. Forgot you have to be so literal on tough guy champion.

    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    I don't know how you're actually trying to compare live mage damage to TFB warriors, but they're really not in the same league. Warriors with 3+ stacks could use a bunch of cooldowns (off the gcd) and literally global you. The mage burst you're showing here requires setup, is much more visible, and is so much easier to counter on top of actually doing nowhere near the same kind of burst.

    I'm not sure if you're unfamiliar with how mages work in general or just bitter that your class was incorrectly nerfed and ruined yet again, but what's this guy is doing isn't surprising or exceptional. First, look at this guy's gear. I know he's fully geared and upgraded from last season, and probably has a good chunk of tyrannical gear too. He's fighting people clearly not even done with their honor sets. I wouldn't put it past this guy to gem pvp power either, making his damage that much more effective. Second, although I just skipped through the video I didn't notice any healers on the alliance side. Healers make a bigger difference against a mage than most other classes, most of all warriors. Where for you a healer restores the damage you do, a healer can actually stop a lot of a mage's damage from happening at all. Dispelling a deep freeze, frost bomb, or even a nova can hurt a lot, let alone what can be done through purging FoF, brainfreeze, veins, alter time, etc. Lastly, most of the players he's killing are just bad. Of those first four he took down, one DK used IBF. Neither used shell. The moonkin didn't barkskin. The warlock used nothing. Nobody trinketed anything or used any CC. For the rest of the game, this mage kites half the team, avoids damage, and actually uses defensive abilities while the other team doesn't use half their spellbooks. Of course he's going to slaughter them.

    Mages have always been like this. They're simply designed in such a way that they're too effective against uncoordinated, undergeared, or incompetent players. In a coordinated team scenario (i.e. arena) when dispels, interrupts, and CC are used properly they're so much less effective that some seasons they're actually on the weak side while the general community keeps complaining about how OP they are. They could probably use a redesign on some mechanics to balance that out, but for now if you don't like it you're welcome to try a class in that situation.
    On the ptr I played a DK and have full tyrannical with gemmed PvP res and a few Power gems and I got killed in a deep. Please explain how that is different to Warriors when it's the same thing without needing cd's...

    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    So because of this video where a totally geared out mage kills scrubs with 350k HP (and some horrible players as well), five classes are overpowered? Plus you didn't even mention Shadow Priests or Mist Weavers who dominate in BGs either?

    Warriors are bad for what, one point release (5.2) and it's like the sky is falling.
    Do you play this game? Warriors were complete garbage for the whole of Cata bar the first broken bit of the season. Same thing has happened now, maybe that will help you understand why Warriors are fearing the next patches/seasons, they don't want to be useless and forced to reroll, quit, or attempt to be BG heroes. I know you're probably a Mage and can't stand Warriors even breaking your shields so need them to be a free kill but your bias really shows. Trying to play it down that Warriors have just become bad and have been good since the beginning of time, gj.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chunkyman View Post
    The video is an example, guys. I'm well aware it's not 6000 rated arena. Forgot you have to be so literal on tough guy champion.
    But the video is your entire point. I can go get a video of a Warrior destroying people in greens but that doesn't prove that Warriors are overpowered. It's just silly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chunkyman
    Do you play this game? Warriors were complete garbage for the whole of Cata bar the first broken bit of the season. Same thing has happened now, maybe that will help you understand why Warriors are fearing the next patches/seasons, they don't want to be useless and forced to reroll, quit, or attempt to be BG heroes. I know you're probably a Mage and can't stand Warriors even breaking your shields so need them to be a free kill but your bias really shows. Trying to play it down that Warriors have just become bad and have been good since the beginning of time, gj.
    Not only do a I play this game, my Warrior is the character I like the most. 5.2 has been rough, there is no argument there, but what I think is funny when people forget that pretty much every class has gone through periods where they dominated and where they've been on the low end. People love to complain about Hunters, yet Hunters went years where they had the lowest representation of Glads. Same with Rogues.

    In fact, if we decided to go by representation, I'd wager that Warriors have been one of the highest represented classes in the game since TBC, and that includes being better than Mages. The problem is, that doesn't fit your narrative that the devs hate Warriors and loves Mages.

    EDIT: Looks like someone has done part of the work for me:

    http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/17...tor-breakdown/

    Other than S5 where Warriors really sucked, Warriors were top half every season, and top 3 for most. I'll post 9-12 when I find them, but it won't be as bad as you remember (edit: well, S11 was bad, but S12 more than made up for it).

    EDIT 2:

    S9:
    S10:
    S11: Can't find any links, but I remember it was very low representation and Rogues were top
    S12, Warriors completely dominate: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7980248409
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-04-22 at 11:28 PM.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmallBoatOps View Post
    25% Def stance is supposed to come back with a 10% to Battle stance which will be really nice. Warrior Damage isn't bad when in Battle Stance. It just gets depleted in Def stance. Also to use some of our D CD's we have to swap to a shield which puts out no dps at all. I think 5.3 will bring Warriors back a bit, wish the fear was a 1min CD though.
    10% damage reduction in battle stance was gutted iirc

    still wouldn't fix the fact that the class is outdated and just about everything new about it will have been nerfed to fuck in 3 patches lol
    Last edited by Gandrake; 2013-04-22 at 11:18 PM.
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  20. #20

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