Been gemming crit since the pre-patch for MoP yo
You gem crit over strength because the crit gem gives 320 crit where as the strength gem only gives 160 strength.
Each crit point gives around 0.8 dps and each strength point gives right above 1.0 iirc (this was early MoP, havent played since ppl killed Sha).
0.8 * 320 = 256 dps and 1.0 * 160 = 160 dps
which means that each crit gem gives 96 more dps.
This however does not apply when theres a juicy strength setbonus or the sha touched 500 str gem.
And that's how I've been doing it, CS+4xEX, BT+RB when CS is not available - usually have to apply berserker rage on the middle if CS doesn't crit and apply enrage, since it would fall off on the 3rd execute. Also my gear Simcraft still says crit is ~3.2, while strength shows at ~2.8 so maybe not?
Although now reading your other post shows that you just mathed it wrong, so no worries.
Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-04-21 at 10:51 PM.
Tl;DR execute doesn't suck, unless you misuse it.
Also, checking your logs I don't see fights where execute is doing less than 5%, so I'm not sure where you're getting that.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. It's simply that you're either exaggerating/misinterpreting how little execute damage is for you, or playing wrong. There really is no other option- unless its a weird fight where you aren't executing or something (such as being dead)
Still, I think both of you (Brakthir/Darkfriend) are now overlooking the fact that being SMF and TG there is a ton of difference on executes total damage precent. You both obviously also are playing as SMF. 35% scaling difference is kinda huge, especially with cooldown usage. I remember my best roll has been around 12% when I had 3 trinket procs in a row, so I could execute on every CS with ~90K-100K AP. I know tortos is not a good example of a fight where execute % would be even good to compare due to aoe, but still last week... Whopping 3.1% (for an example).
Next roll with good amount of crits on Megaera 10m normal, I got it around 10%, because I could execute on every head (obv). Still the sad thing was, that when I'm looking at the damage done graph on WoL, on execute range the burst is not even tiny bit higher than before getting to 20% with CS+RB(+HS)+BT+RB(+HS)+RB(+HS). On Lei shen I got it to whopping 7.8%, with no burst dps being any higher than before sub 20%. Got way higher burst on start and midfight with again just RB+HS. So in most cases i'm just trading of the rotation with no real benefit on total dps on my part.
Last tier my execute could have been anywhere from 15 to 18% easily without any praying for the "RPPM gods" for those trinkets to proc. =P
Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-04-21 at 11:27 PM.
Uh, no. There isn't a ton of difference between SMF and TG execute %. Both fights you stated are horrible examples considering Tortos is a ton of AOE and Maegera, the head's don't last long enough for proper execute usage. Lei Shen is also a ton of aoe.
Yes I know, horrible examples. Hard to find good examples on this tier actually. Because I can't find a graph where I would perfectly see when I'm executing or not, since most fights got more than 1 target to chew on. Also since the graph is not showing any real jumps during any <20% phases (except horridon, doh). Lei shen also has aoe only going from phase 2, so if my damage is generally the same or higher from pure single target from 100% to 65% than from 30% to 0%, you're saying it doesn't really mean/tell anything?
Still I think the actual % of the ability is irrelevant, if it won't show any real benefit on actual DPS while using the ability... and usually it doesn't show on mine WoL graphs anymore, unlike last tier.
At this point I'm not sure how we got from you handling your execute phase wrong to SMF v TG execute phase - which doesn't matter since they play the exact same.
Not to mention, execute is always a phase you'll do more damage during than outside of it. So you're wrong about the "actual DPS benefit" part. At this point I'm just going to go with you're playing your class poorly, or you don't know how to play the class.
Like you just said yourself Darkfriend, TG's weaker execute is counteracted by having more damage outside execute phase - what was kinda my point from the start. In my humble opinion it just has come to the point for me that outside the execute, TG's damage is very close if not even the same as just being in a actual execute rotation - while that is not true for SMF, or even for Arms. There might still be a slight benefit, but it's mostly not even noticeable anymore, on dpsmeters or on logs, so in theory you COULD just ignore using it and not even look bad.
Or well, I could always blame my trinkets, haha. Not like there is any challenge to mostly just pool rage with BT+(RB/free WS) for each CS+execute*4, while preventing rage cap with executes. Actually some blizzard blue said on last tier, that if execute did like 20% of your total dps, you weren't handling your dps rotation prior the execute well enough. I'm only usually behind 8-10k for my Simcraft's patchwerk numbers at single target fights where movement occurs, so am I really a poor player then? Maybe I am.
Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-04-22 at 01:06 AM.
No, if you ignored execute your DPS would suffer. A lot.
As SMF, execute is still a noticeable dps increase post 5.2 nerf.
Especially if you align your damage CDs and procs. Reck+skull+BB+DR+pot > CS > 5x execute.
Yes, you're dps goes up during CDs and during CS, but to compare execute+CDs and normal+CDs and say they yield even similar DPS gains is asinine. The limiting factor to execute is it's high rage cost.
Your damage goes up during cooldowns, and goes down outside of cooldowns. Naturally if you hold your cooldowns for a longer period of time your DPS will reach a lower point before you activate them during Execute than if you had not held those cooldowns at all.
Like I said, not doubting Execute is a DPS gain (or holding your CDs for it for that matter), but saying "Holding my CDs for execute makes my DPS jump up, therefore Execute is a DPS gain" is a total logical fallacy.
1.) Holding DPS CDs is at times a DPS benefit over using them immediately. TRUE.
2.) Holding DPS CDs in order to align them is, when done correctly, a DPS increase. TRUE
3.) Holding DPS CDs for the correct amount of time in order to have them available for the longest amount of time during an execute phase is, if done correctly, a DPS increase over not doing so. TRUE
THEREFORE, when done correctly, holding DPS CDs for execute phase is a DPS gain.
This is valid, but whether or not it's true depends on a number of factors (there are many undefined or ambiguous terms and usages.)
Saying, using DPS CDs correctly and during execute will yield a higher DPS gain compared to not doing so is true, and is no way predicated upon because I said so. Rather, it's true because it can be tested and proved, and therfore will remain true regardless of how it is phrased, or the validity of the phrasing.
TL;DR truth is not predicated upon validity. Tale the following
All men are mortal
Socrates is mortal
Therefore, Socrates is a man.
It's true that Socrates is a man, but the argument is invalid.
Oh, one last thing, I never said what you quoted. I said DPS jumps during CDs, which should be self apparent. If you want to go into what I said after that, it was that comparing CDS+execute and CDs+normal rotation the former is better. I said not that one is predicated upon the other. I wouldn't argue about logical fallacies when you construct a straw man to try and argue against a stance.
Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-04-22 at 02:05 AM.
Why do you have to make it so complicated...
Our cooldowns increase our damage by a percentage => using them during a time where we deal higher damage (i.e. execute phase) will result in about the same %-increase but a much bigger absolute increase.
And now be friends and keep your warrior beard in shape