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  1. #1

    The impact of heroic scenarios.

    Hi Everyone! I'm just making a post to ask for everyone's opinions about heroic scenarios. I personally don't think they serve a purpose. I mean sure, They're more challenging than normal scenarios, but I'd still prefer more 5 mans.

    I like the unique mechanics, but overall scenarios have been very bland / pointless compared to Dungeons. With the 516 item level rewards, alot of people will run them (Purely for the rewards). I'm worried about blizzard saying "Look at all of these people enjoying scenarios!" and discontinuing dungeon content.

    Now, if that happened, where would new tanks / healers learn to play? Scenarios have nothing to tank or heal, since they are tuned for 3 DPS to live through.
    Would LFR be sufficient practice for a new tank or healer? I personally don't think that it is, as most healers spam aoe heals to top meters and I see alot of tanks just spamming taunt on cooldown trying to stack vengeance to do high dps, without worrying about mitigation.

    I'm really interested in what everyone else thinks about them.

    If you don't know anything about heroic scenarios, i've made a video detailing what they're all about.



  2. #2
    Tanks and Healers would have proving grounds to learn their class.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasc View Post
    Tanks and Healers would have proving grounds to learn their class.
    Just like everyone else has dance studio to customize their dance style right?

  4. #4
    You think they will stop making dungeons because they are making heroic scenarios? The same scenarios they admitted to making because it requires very little of their resources and they don't need to pull anyone from any other teams?

  5. #5
    You think a tank learns how to deal with a co-tank in a 5man perhaps? Or a healer learns how to heal there properly without any other healers to back him up? Hmmmm... no.
    I'm also pretty sure a proper tank will still not be a hindrance at all in heroic scenarios. Stand in some stuff on the floor for some vengeance and you can easily round up all mobs in sight, no? Makes the other 2 dps be able to focus on damage a lot more.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspects View Post
    Now, if that happened, where would new tanks / healers learn to play?
    ...
    Would LFR be sufficient practice for a new tank or healer?
    Sorry if I'm pulling this out of context, but I personally have the feeling that neither 5 mans nor LFR (nor scenarios, to be complete) serve this purpose anymore at all. There are two types of players in random groups, the ones that carry others and the ones that are carried by others. While the former could faceroll through every group finder content on their own with only a minor increase in time taken, the later are, through this circumstance, presented no reason to show effort or become better, they just go unnoticed, get their loot bag every now and then, then enter next group, but ultimately they have learned merely one thing, and that is that they don't need to do anything to succeed; someone else WILL do it for them.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspects View Post
    Hi Everyone! I'm just making a post to ask for everyone's opinions about heroic scenarios. I personally don't think they serve a purpose. I mean sure, They're more challenging than normal scenarios, but I'd still prefer more 5 mans.

    I like the unique mechanics, but overall scenarios have been very bland / pointless compared to Dungeons. With the 516 item level rewards, alot of people will run them (Purely for the rewards). I'm worried about blizzard saying "Look at all of these people enjoying scenarios!" and discontinuing dungeon content.

    Now, if that happened, where would new tanks / healers learn to play? Scenarios have nothing to tank or heal, since they are tuned for 3 DPS to live through.
    Would LFR be sufficient practice for a new tank or healer? I personally don't think that it is, as most healers spam aoe heals to top meters and I see alot of tanks just spamming taunt on cooldown trying to stack vengeance to do high dps, without worrying about mitigation.

    I'm really interested in what everyone else thinks about them.

    If you don't know anything about heroic scenarios, i've made a video detailing what they're all about.

    I think tanks and healers are worried they won't have a monopoly on instant queues anymore. They lose "control" over the group. they can't be an asshat because no one has to bow to them for fear of sitting in an hour long queue again just to a run a dungeon.

  8. #8
    Its so easy to earn Valor points in 5.2, even if you ignore several sources for the points. I cap them via clearing ToT and some random heroic dungeons, where I atleast have the chance for a shard or two. Scenarios, especially heroic ones are a waste of everyones time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 02:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by pvrwizard View Post
    I think tanks and healers are worried they won't have a monopoly on instant queues anymore. They lose "control" over the group. they can't be an asshat because no one has to bow to them for fear of sitting in an hour long queue again just to a run a dungeon.
    Heroic dungeons queues are 5-10 minutes long for me, as dps, on a medium populated battlegroup, no idea where are you playing to have 1 hr queues.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspects View Post
    Hi Everyone! I'm just making a post to ask for everyone's opinions about heroic scenarios. I personally don't think they serve a purpose. I mean sure, They're more challenging than normal scenarios, but I'd still prefer more 5 mans.

    I like the unique mechanics, but overall scenarios have been very bland / pointless compared to Dungeons. With the 516 item level rewards, alot of people will run them (Purely for the rewards). I'm worried about blizzard saying "Look at all of these people enjoying scenarios!" and discontinuing dungeon content.

    Now, if that happened, where would new tanks / healers learn to play? Scenarios have nothing to tank or heal, since they are tuned for 3 DPS to live through.
    Would LFR be sufficient practice for a new tank or healer? I personally don't think that it is, as most healers spam aoe heals to top meters and I see alot of tanks just spamming taunt on cooldown trying to stack vengeance to do high dps, without worrying about mitigation.

    I'm really interested in what everyone else thinks about them.

    If you don't know anything about heroic scenarios, i've made a video detailing what they're all about.



    I'm more worried about dps learning how to play, even though every single avenue is geared towards them. In MY experience, tanks and healers generally do a bit of research, get addons, and try, again, my experience through the world, anecdotal as it is.

    I do scenarios as shadow, normally do 80-100k dps single target, take 0 avoidable damage. 9 times out of 10 the other two "dps" do 30-50k, stand in everything, even though, when asked have done all the scenarios 50 times. So I usually end up healing (sometimes healing enough where I have barely enough time to dot anything) rather than letting them both die and soloing it (which has happened more than a few times).

    Again, personal experience, but there's a bigger problem than the tanks/healers, most who actually want to succeed. There will always be the few that see they can click the tank/heal role to get instant queues. But I've never seen it.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspects View Post
    Hi Everyone! I'm just making a post to ask for everyone's opinions about heroic scenarios. I personally don't think they serve a purpose. I mean sure, They're more challenging than normal scenarios, but I'd still prefer more 5 mans.

    I like the unique mechanics, but overall scenarios have been very bland / pointless compared to Dungeons. With the 516 item level rewards, alot of people will run them (Purely for the rewards). I'm worried about blizzard saying "Look at all of these people enjoying scenarios!" and discontinuing dungeon content.

    Now, if that happened, where would new tanks / healers learn to play? Scenarios have nothing to tank or heal, since they are tuned for 3 DPS to live through.
    Would LFR be sufficient practice for a new tank or healer? I personally don't think that it is, as most healers spam aoe heals to top meters and I see alot of tanks just spamming taunt on cooldown trying to stack vengeance to do high dps, without worrying about mitigation.

    I'm really interested in what everyone else thinks about them.

    If you don't know anything about heroic scenarios, i've made a video detailing what they're all about.


    The boring mobs we AOE to get to the end of the miserable bloody things for our shinies will have enough health that they're annoyingly slow to kill. Can't you see how fun and challenging it's going to be?
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans RoKPaNda's Avatar
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    To be honest I'd rather they just keep doing 1-2 new sets of 2-3 heroic dungeons per expansion as they had been doing previously. Scenarios are better than nothing, but only very slightly better. Currently scenarios aren't worth doing, and that's not going to change with heroic scenarios unless they change the rewards. A small chance at a poorly itemized reward, no matter the ilevel, isn't much incentive to do a scenario.

    This expansion has done a lot of things right for raiding and for other things for players to do (brawler's guild, pet battles, etc.) but it fell flat on it's face for small group content. Scenarios are a "Run 'em once and never again." experience, the smallest number of 5-mans that got boring extremely fast, and we have justice points which aren't good for anything except converting to honor to buy PvP epics to cheese the ilevel requirement of LFR somewhat. That's ... about it. Even after dealing with them for almost a year I didn't mind the dragon soul heroics to valor cap, I can't even stand to look at the current batch of 5-mans or scenarios.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Kcin14's Avatar
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    I prefer the scenarios to 5 mans because they're shorter and don't have lengthy queue times.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk twistedsista's Avatar
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    i don't do normal scenarios, & wont do heroics when they are released. so there wont be any impact on me.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspects View Post
    Hi Everyone! I'm just making a post to ask for everyone's opinions about heroic scenarios. I personally don't think they serve a purpose.
    On the contrary. 5 man dungeons no longer serve a purpose. Scenarios are quick, queue-time friendly and offer essentially the same game play... imo better.

    And dungeons arent there to 'teach' you how to play. For a lot of players thats the end game. The small group running. Everyone needs to get it out of their head everything is just secondary to raiding. Its really not the case at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  15. #15
    I am 100% sure they are not "discontinuing" 5 mans.

    I am a bit confused as to why the loot is 516 though, I think it should just be chance of a LFR piece (that would make more sense to me).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    Just like everyone else has dance studio to customize their dance style right?
    What? I don't understand.

  17. #17
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Its so easy to earn Valor points in 5.2, even if you ignore several sources for the points. I cap them via clearing ToT and some random heroic dungeons, where I atleast have the chance for a shard or two. Scenarios, especially heroic ones are a waste of everyones time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 02:07 PM ----------



    Heroic dungeons queues are 5-10 minutes long for me, as dps, on a medium populated battlegroup, no idea where are you playing to have 1 hr queues.
    Everyones time? Hardly, I much prefer scenarios over hc's.
    *broken link*
    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Even after dealing with them for almost a year I didn't mind the dragon soul heroics to valor cap, I can't even stand to look at the current batch of 5-mans or scenarios.
    I could not disagree more the HoT heroics made me puke 4.3 was the closest I have been in 8 years to unsubbing. the same 5 mans over and over again where the only way to earn Valor outside raiding, it really did not help that the 5 mans got easier through cata this meant no one EVER run the old content it was a train wreck if you tried.

    In 4.3 we earnt Valor outside of raiding with

    3 5 mans, 2 wings of LFR.

    In 5.2 we earn Valor outside of raiding with

    9 5 mans, 9 wings of LFR, Dailies (I really think the Isle has been very well done), 11 Scenerios, Challenge Modes (still the most efficient way).

    I do wish earning Valor was a bit quicker and I do wish they would make more 5 mans but I understand why they have not.
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-04-21 at 04:00 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasc View Post
    What? I don't understand.
    It was a joke because I think proving grounds=dance studio in that they are both scrapped ideas we will never see.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    You think a tank learns how to deal with a co-tank in a 5man perhaps? Or a healer learns how to heal there properly without any other healers to back him up? Hmmmm... no.
    I'm also pretty sure a proper tank will still not be a hindrance at all in heroic scenarios. Stand in some stuff on the floor for some vengeance and you can easily round up all mobs in sight, no? Makes the other 2 dps be able to focus on damage a lot more.
    In LFR most co-tanks just spam taunt on a boss and try to focus on DPS rather than mitigation, and Healers just spam AOE heals to top meters.

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