View Poll Results: Would 4th specs styled after WC3 heroes solve class problems?

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  • Yes

    204 34.87%
  • No

    381 65.13%
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  1. #1
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    4th spec would solve all class problems.

    The recent rise in Demon Hunter class threads have made me realize why a 4th spec would be the best option for the game moving forward. People certainly want specialized classes in WoW that emerged in WC3. Blademasters, Wardens, and Demon Hunters are very popular class ideas, but they don't have enough uniqueness to become stand alone classes. However, they do have enough uniqueness to become specs of existing classes. Even better, Blizzard could attach the names from those WC3 units to these new specs in order to excite WoW players.

    Doing this would breathe new life into the older classes without us having to deal with new classes taking luster away from the older classes. This would also rekindle some interest in the older classes in the game, and bring back veteran players, since a lot of WoW vets are also WC3 vets and always desired these Hero units to be in the game in a more representative fashion. For newer players, new ways to play your favorite class could be looked on as a challenge, or something interesting. Likewise, if you're really into a casters, playing a caster spec on something like a Death Knight could make you want to give the class a chance.

    Note I'm not saying this would solve class balance issues. I'm saying this would taper down the number of people requesting new classes being added to the game.

    Let's look at some examples, and see if you agree;

    Death Knight: Lichs

    Many people probably don't realize that the DK pulled quite a few abilities from the Lich. In any case, Frost Nova, and Frost Armor WC3 still doesn't exist in the game. Neither does Dark Ritual. Blizzard could also give this spec some necromancer abilities, since DKs have Unholy, and Lichs are supposedly reincarnated Necromancers that feed off of their creations (Dark Ritual). This would be a cool spec to utilize, it works with the DK thematic, and it gives Frost Mages a run for their money.

    Verdict

    INT Plate currently is only being used by one spec in the game. Necromancers remain a popular class requests, and adding in Lich abilities would add some utility to a potential DK caster spec.


    Druids: Keeper of the Grove/Dryads

    This wouldn't be so much of a new spec, as merely a new form for Balance Druids to replace the aging Moonkin form. I would personally like to see a movement speed increase, just to give me the added satisfaction of being a KotG running through the wilds.

    Verdict

    Moonkin form is aging rapidly. Many Druids are already using Glyph of the Stars, so this seems to be a no-brainer. There's many ways this can be implemented without causing a problem.

    Mages: Blood Mage

    The ever popular Blood Mage. Though Fire Mages have absorbed the majority of this spec's abilities, quite a few abilities like Phoenix are still floating out there in the nether sphere. The trick to implementing this spec is to make it different than Fire Mages. Given the lore behind Phoenixes and Blood, you could give this spec some sort of life control properties. Of course the problem with that could be a collision with Warlock concepts. Either way, its definitely doable, and would make any Blood Elf Mage pretty happy.

    Verdict

    Difficult to implement, but definitely possible. Main issue is making the spec distinct from Fire Mages.

    Hunters: Beast Master

    This one's easy. Hunters want a melee spec. Players loved Rexxar from WC3. Hunters already have stampede. The only issue is that Beastmaster spec already exists. There would have to be some name swapping for this to work, but imagine a Melee spec where you can summon your stable of pets to fight for you at the press of a button for set amount of time. Sounds pretty cool IMO.

    Verdict

    Not to hard to implement, and will add some nice diversity to Hunters.

    Rogues: Wardens

    The only thing hurting this concept is lore, because Wardens are jailers lore-wise. However, from a mechanical/gameplay standpoint, it makes sense. Rogues are agility based, Wardens are agility based. Rogues use poison and fan of knives, Wardens use poison and fan of knives. Spirit of Vengeance works with Rogue's theme, as does Sinister Strike. Giving Rogues a teleport of some type isn't much of a problem either. Rogues could use a magic based spec with lots of cool abilities. Again, the only issue we have here is lore.

    Verdict

    Mechanically it works. Lore-wise it causes problems. However, gameplay >> lore.

    Shaman: Chieftain

    Shaman want 2H. Shaman want a Tank spec. This solves both requests. Though Warriors have shockwave, Shaman have Reincarnation. War Stomp is a racial, but can be altered to make it a spec ability. Endurance aura would be a nice utility for groups. Blizzard could even implement 2H Totems for these Shaman to swing around and wreck stuff with. Make this spec earth-based, and you're good to go.

    Verdict

    The massive amount of Tauren Shaman tanks would make this awesome in of itself.

    Warlocks: Demon Hunters

    Yeah, this one is obvious. Warlocks have Metamorphosis and Immolation. Warlocks have an armor set based on Illidan. Warlocks have a glyph called glyph of Demon Hunting that turns them into a version of Black Temple Illidan. Demon Hunters in WoW have Warlock abilities. Give Warlocks a DW melee spec ala Enhancement Shaman, and just call it day.

    Verdict

    A no brainer. Just do it and get it over with already.

    Warriors: Blademaster

    Another popular choice that will NEVER become a class. However as a spec, this would be awesome. Wind Walk, and then pop out and critically strike a target. Carry your War Banner on your back and make your buffs mobile. Split into illusionary copies of yourself and wreck havoc on people and make mages pee their pants. Best of all; Warriors already have Bladestorm. This would be awesome on so many levels.

    Verdict

    I would actually roll a Warrior if this happened. I'm sure I wouldn't be alone.

    Conclusion

    I posted up a poll. Let me know what you think there as well as in this thread. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-04-21 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #2
    I voted no purely on the basis that it would balancing even harder for Blizzard. Also gief mages a frost tanking spec.... yeah?? yeah... ????

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    No. The game is imbalanced because of the sheer insane amount of class, talents, spells, abilities and their synergy. Adding another set is only going to make so much worse!

  5. #5
    I'd say other possibilities include rogues getting a bard spec that gives them healing capabilities and mages getting a battlemage tanking spec or time control based healing spec. I don't think 4th specs will ever actually happen but in terms of flavor I think it would be cool.

  6. #6
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    Where's the holy deeps priest? Biased thread is biased.
    I only included the classes that have a hero unit equivalent. There's another thread floating out there that talks about possible 4th specs for every class. Do a search, it should be easy to find.

  7. #7
    I agree; adding more synergy problems isn't going to solve anything. Your topic title is also misleading: Adding a 4th spec would solve all class WISHES, but none of the problems. What you want and what causes problems are not the same thing.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    No. The game is imbalanced because of the sheer insane amount of class, talents, spells, abilities and their synergy. Adding another set is only going to make so much worse!
    Except that Blizzard resets classes every expansion anyway, so the game will never be perfectly balanced. Also people complaining about balance aren't speaking for Blizzard, who have never said that they have problems balancing their game.

  9. #9
    I like the idea a lot. It would probably be hard to balance but I it sounds a lot of fun.

  10. #10
    Lots of assertions here, shamans want a tank spec? shamans want a 2h spec? A few shamans on the forums do sure, do most shamans? Unlikely. Hunters want a melee spec? They do? I see more requests for a pet-less spec than a melee one and again that's just a small forum group.

    You lose a lot of credibility with me because of these meaningless assertions and because of that I don't even feel the need to touch on the obvious balance issues of adding 11 new specs to an already bloated pool.

  11. #11
    I have actually been toying with this idea a bit, and was planning to make a post on the official boards. I kind of took it in a different direction. I think it is time that Blizzard shook up the holy trinity (tank/healer/dps) a little bit. They've been getting more creative with mechanics, but still limited to needing a dedicated tank and healers for every fight (Garalon is about the only fight that breaks the idea). So why not give a fourth spec to every class and introduce hybrids? 2 healers not enough, but 3 too many? Bring a battle healer that does the damage of a tank, but heals while DPSing and has a few healing cooldowns. Need an offtank but a dedicated tank is a waste? Bring a hybrid tank that can do more damage than a tank, but a little more squishy (and possibly some kind of unique debuff to make them viable even when adds are down).

    Still like DKs using INT armor bit. Might require the class to be redesigned too much. None of the current abilities outside of death coil are really suited to an int caster, and every class tend to share a lot of abilities between specs, DKs even more so. Something to look into though. Not sure why you feel a need to limit it to hero class equivalents. New specs aren't the equivalent of a hero class, and can merely reflect a new method of training.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
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    Mages should become Battle-Mages, and should wear Mail/Plate and be melee oriented with short-cast spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaktor View Post
    Hunters want a melee spec? They do? I see more requests for a pet-less spec than a melee one and again that's just a small forum group
    many hunters want a melee spec because the coolest hunter ever never touched a ranged weapon (rexxar). indeed, hunters ask a lot for petless hunter, but that should be baked in marksmanship, it doesn't really need a new spec.
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  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Narna's Avatar
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    I can just image the nightmare of balancing a new spec for all classes. Oh god.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except that Blizzard resets classes every expansion anyway, so the game will never be perfectly balanced. Also people complaining about balance aren't speaking for Blizzard, who have never said that they have problems balancing their game.
    They don't have problems balancing their game because balancing their game is an ongoing process. They've got an entire team working on it non-stop.

    Them 'resetting classes every expansion anyway' is simply completely untrue. It might look like that to you, but they really don't do that. What they do is change and tweak the system in order to get a better overall game-system performance, and then adjust classes to better suit the new ideas, ideals and additional class levels, as well as fix problems incurred through scaling.

    I'm not saying they couldn't implement a fourth optional spec for each and every class, but I am saying that it would add only problems and coolness factor. It wouldn't add anything convenient for the game itself, especially not if the fourth spec remains 'pure' for pure classes. Basically, they would be sacrificing system efficiency and stability (of which there is little enough at the moment due to overwhelming scaling issues in the core system, extended to incorporate an additional (unsupported) 40 character levels and 400 item levels held together by spit, blood, band-aid fixes, ingenuity and game designer's pure, raw, unadulterated tenacity) for the benefit of pandering to your thoughts of 'wouldn't it be cool to have this, and that, and that, and that, and that...' You want a separate ranger class, tinker class, bard class, demon hunter class and necromancer class. You've got examples of all of those in your signature, yet none of those classes utilize any core WoW math mechanics. All you do is give us (incredibly rough) tooltips, lacking numbers or even base proportions for rotational values. And while those ideas can be awesome (though often bloated; Meat Wagon, I'm looking at you for an inefficient, bloated and redundant example), they're not game design. They're (sometimes really cool) ideas, and nothing more (but also nothing less) than that. They're wishes, desires and hopes without mechanical back-ground or actual functional design.

    I'm not trying to flame you by saying all this... I'm trying to explain that what you're doing isn't game design, and the bit I quoted up here tells us all that you're not very experienced with game design. If you're interested in game design with core functions, I'd like to point you to http://www.giantitp.com. They've got a forum, with a homebrewing section where people design classes, races, items and more for the D20 roleplaying game systems. I'd say: Become familiar with the system (http://www.d20srd.org), get a few friends together to try out some roleplaying games in order to familiarize yourself with the system, and start homebrewing. I've found the D20 system to be a simple, but good, systematical framework for learning the basics of game design. It's relatively simple in and of itself, using percentile increments of 5 (every 1 point on a 20-sided die is, after all, 5%), and success rates follow a simple formula: Result = D20+modifiers. If Result = or > Target Number, you score a success. Target Number = 10+modifiers.
    There's much more to it than that (different damage/hit dice types and independent class level scaling mechanisms), but it's probably the simplest out there. So I'd say: Have a look at the system!

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    *snip*
    Read it all, however, your 'verdicts' leave much to be desired. The simplest answer in this case is if you wanna tank, roll a class with a tank spec... they already have more than enough problems balancing 3 specs per class... you want four? only if you remain completely silent about any balance issues after they implement it which undoubtable will be broken beyond belief.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    many hunters want a melee spec because the coolest hunter ever never touched a ranged weapon (rexxar). indeed, hunters ask a lot for petless hunter, but that should be baked in marksmanship, it doesn't really need a new spec.
    The coolest hunter to the majority of WoW players is likely not Rexxar but instead a certain elf from another franchise (who incidentally had no pets). I can understand this melee thing fits with the whole "must copy wc3 heroes" theme going on here but I for one have never seen a hunter ask for a melee spec except on this forum.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Reading through I see several instances of where you seem to largely lack knowledge of the game in its current state. There are many problems with your suggestions because of this, and overall I have to say your suggestions are bad. 4th specs would be nice, but not what you have suggested.
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  19. #19
    Your threads are so tiresome, Teriz. Stop wasting everyones time, if you cant accept proper arguments against your ideas. A 4th spec would solve anything, it'd just add new problems.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  20. #20
    i think if they add it ...
    make it a PVE spec only :X

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