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  1. #21
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    If North Korea actually acts on any of their threats, they will be decimated so quickly they won't know what hit them.
    Still, those things can hit anywhere in the world. And they scare the shit out of me.

    Do you know how much power a state of the art nuke yields? It could wipe half the UK in a single strike..

    Maybe not NK's.. YET. But i would feel alot safer if said WMD's were never invented in the first place.

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  2. #22
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Those 2 words lead me to believe that your argument is a joke.

    I also highlited 'war crimes' because I think its funny (you know because America has gotten away with countless of war crimes after WWII)

    No hard feelings to the US, I just wanted to point out that their hands are covered with blood aswell.
    You're right. Because launching a Land Assault against the Japanese was the best way to deal with the situation right? They tried that on the smaller islands in the area, and the human cost was so extreme. Each island was like another D-Day Beach Landing ...

    They had a network of tunnels, so bombing and artillery was almost worthless. The only way to win against the Japanese was to go from inch to inch with Flame Throwers, and clear it that way. That would've taken years, and cost millions more lives.
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  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    You're right. Because launching a Land Assault against the Japanese was the best way to deal with the situation right? They tried that on the smaller islands in the area, and the human cost was so extreme. Each island was like another D-Day Beach Landing ...

    They had a network of tunnels, so bombing and artillery was almost worthless. The only way to win against the Japanese was to go from inch to inch with Flame Throwers, and clear it that way. That would've taken years, and cost millions more lives.
    Japan was ready to surrender, the only condition they wanted was that the Emperor remain unharmed and in power.

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    If North Korea actually acts on any of their threats, they will be decimated so quickly they won't know what hit them.
    Agreed. The U.S, Japan, South Korea, China & Russia all have their systems on alert. Anything that seems destructive coming into anyones aerospace is going to blown out of the sky, and the U.S. retaliation would make the US vs North Korea War the shortest in History.

    The U.S. wouldn't risk letting North Korea ever return to that mind set and rhetoric if they have a real and legitimate chance to extinguish it.
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  5. #25
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    Sorry, but if you start a war, and lose it, you don't get to make stipulations for surrender...

  6. #26
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Japan was ready to surrender, the only condition they wanted was that the Emperor remain unharmed and in power.
    I'd expect someone with Military understanding to know just how dedicated the Japanese were! Even after the bombings, thousands of soldiers killed themselves, or continued to fight until they were killed. They did this because they'd rather die in War, then surrender and be weak.

    Guaranteed, without the bombings, the cost of life on both sides would've been far more catastrophic.
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  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    Sorry, but if you start a war, and lose it, you don't get to make stipulations for surrender...
    All they wanted was to save the life of their Emperor, the US said no, dropped the bombs then decided to let them keep the Emperor anyway. The bombing was pointless.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    It was an evil that had to be done... you think if Germany or Japan had the bomb first they wouldn't of used it? It was a race, and we did what had to be done to end the war. Disgraced? Really? You are disgraced that thousands of brave men and women died to protect our country? You sir... sicken me... if you detest the country you live in so much, leave!
    The bomb wasn't needed to make Germany surrender, being stuck between 2 fronts and having their capital city conquered did the trick just fine

    And yes, I think Japan would have surrendered without the bombs, the negotiations would have been a much better way of doing things, dropping the bombs was an important cause of the Cold War.
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  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    I'd expect someone with Military understanding to know just how dedicated the Japanese were! Even after the bombings, thousands of soldiers killed themselves, or continued to fight until they were killed. They did this because they'd rather die in War, then surrender and be weak.

    Guaranteed, without the bombings, the cost of life on both sides would've been far more catastrophic.
    They were ready to surrender, this is not up for debate.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Agreed. The U.S, Japan, South Korea, China & Russia all have their systems on alert. Anything that seems destructive coming into anyones aerospace is going to blown out of the sky, and the U.S. retaliation would make the US vs North Korea War the shortest in History.

    The U.S. wouldn't risk letting North Korea ever return to that mind set and rhetoric if they have a real and legitimate chance to extinguish it.
    I think China will step in and handle the mess that is North Korea if they ever did anything. You know China is over there telling that kid to stfu or we will obliterate you ourselfs

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk Nirawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    Imperialist? LOL! Really? We had our heads firmly buried in the sand before Japan decided to try and obliterate our Pacific Fleet. We may have been helping England with supplies, but the American public had no interest in joining that war because it was a problem over there.
    America provoked Japan time and time again through economic acts of aggression. Regardless of which actions from either side you consider unmerited or justified, this belief that America had no involvement in the events leading up to Japan attacking them is a fallacy.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Guaranteed, without the bombings, the cost of life on both sides would've been far more catastrophic.
    You can not guarantee that claim, you can only assume.

    Those soldiers wouldn't have performed Seppuku if Japan ended the war with fair negotiations. They knew they where going to lose eventually.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    The bomb wasn't needed to make Germany surrender, being stuck between 2 fronts and having their capital city conquered did the trick just fine
    Nope, we just obliterated their country by more conventional means, it might as well been nuked from all the destruction from the carpet bombing.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    Imperialist? LOL! Really? We had our heads firmly buried in the sand before Japan decided to try and obliterate our Pacific Fleet. We may have been helping England with supplies, but the American public had no interest in joining that war because it was a problem over there.
    Yes, WWII was a war about the imperialist interests of the US, Germany, GB, Russia, France, Italy, and a few other "lesser" players. It's also ironic how the war most associated with national togetherness happened to have the most internal opposition.

    On the topic of the bombs dropped, it was a show of power by the US. We had already decimated cities (with more Japanese casualties) without wasting a single US life, so it's not like the bomb offered some alternative we didn't have before.

    And on the subject of NK's madman of a ruler - I hope he's swiftly assassinated, and that political system completely overthrown so the people he rules over can actually have a choice as to the actions of their country (or at least the illusion of choice).
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  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    A permanent stain on the US's history that wont go away. Needless and cruel war crime.

    Not about to argue with people on this matter either, its been done to death and back again.

  16. #36
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    They were ready to surrender, this is not up for debate.
    Their leaders, their civilians, yes.

    Their soldiers, not so much. Remember, back in the 1900's it was still a very traditional Japan. Bringing shame on the family was a disgrace, so many went off to war, hoping to die, for honour. When the word came back that they had surrendered, many more continued to fight.

    The bombing was needed to give good reason to those that did surrender, to put down their weapons. If the bombs never dropped, I'm sure tens of thousands more, would've kept fighting!
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    A permanent stain on the US's history that wont go away. Needless and cruel war crime.

    Not about to argue with people on this matter either, its been done to death and back again.

    To be honest, i think the US is tired of caring what the world thinks, Just reading MMO forums, its pretty much been beaten to death that everyone hates us. I personally have done nothing to anyone. But i'm hated, and stopped giving two fucks about it, and stopped trying to defend myself and country to idiots.

  18. #38
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    To be honest, i think the US is tired of caring what the world thinks, Just reading MMO forums, its pretty much been beaten to death that everyone hates us. I personally have done nothing to anyone. But i'm hated, and stopped giving two fucks about it, and stopped trying to defend myself and country to idiots.
    All nations have permanent dark stains on their history, the United Kingdom has our fair share of horrific acts.

    The one problem that the United States suffers from is their chest thumping. This over-the-top constant screaming about what a great nation you are. I'm not starting an argument, just saying, from what I have seen and heard, the world is just sick of the attitude the U.S. has, not its past.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Those 2 words lead me to believe that your argument is a joke.

    I also highlited 'war crimes' because I think its funny (you know because America has gotten away with countless of war crimes after WWII)

    No hard feelings to the US, I just wanted to point out that their hands are covered with blood aswell.
    It's easy to be the good guy when your responsibilities are nothing while pointing and calling the other criminal when his responsibilities are grand.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MC ALPACA FLAYME View Post
    Yes, WWII was a war about the imperialist interests of the US, Germany, GB, Russia, France, Italy, and a few other "lesser" players. It's also ironic how the war most associated with national togetherness happened to have the most internal opposition.

    On the topic of the bombs dropped, it was a show of power by the US. We had already decimated cities (with more Japanese casualties) without wasting a single US life, so it's not like the bomb offered some alternative we didn't have before.

    And on the subject of NK's madman of a ruler - I hope he's swiftly assassinated, and that political system completely overthrown so the people he rules over can actually have a choice as to the actions of their country (or at least the illusion of choice).
    this is the DUMBEST post I've EVER read, the United states stayed well AWAY from World War II and it's issues because we wanted NOTHING to do with it, and on top of that, the most internally opposed!?! nowhere CLOSE to opposed as the Vietnam conflict was. Get your facts straight before you start bashing entire nations of people when you have no fucking idea what you're even talking about, that's disgustingly offensive to any and all involved for you to even PRETEND to know what you're talking about

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