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  1. #41
    The war went more like this:
    We demanded surrender or the Japanese would face total annihilation. They refused.
    We dropped a nuke on Hiroshima, asked for them to surrender unconditionally again. They refused again, and made no comments about the emperor, yet.
    We bombed Nagasaki, the Japanese refused to unconditionally surrender. Their only term: The Emperor was left unarmed and in power.

    We gave into that demand. Which saved the lives of millions of Japanese and Americans and ended the war.

    Instant death by nuclear bomb is a lot more humane that dropping thousands of incendiary bombs and burning a bunch of people to death.




    All of the arguements against the nuclear attacks hinge on maybes. Maybe the Japanese would have surrendered without us blowing up two cities. The truth is probably not. I like to go with factual historical evidence instead of the hearsay of "Japanese officials" who would probably like nothing more than to make the US look bad.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    To be honest, i think the US is tired of caring what the world thinks, Just reading MMO forums, its pretty much been beaten to death that everyone hates us. I personally have done nothing to anyone. But i'm hated, and stopped giving two fucks about it, and stopped trying to defend myself and country to idiots.
    Your taking what I said wildy out of context. Im responding to the OP's question, nothing more. I dont dislike people from there. Every nation has stains on its record, you wanna talk about them go make a thread and we can. This thread just happens to be about a particularly horrific one.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MC ALPACA FLAYME View Post
    And on the subject of NK's madman of a ruler - I hope he's swiftly assassinated, and that political system completely overthrown so the people he rules over can actually have a choice as to the actions of their country (or at least the illusion of choice).
    Assassinating Kim Jong Un would make him a martyr. Sometimes people gain influence when they die, especially when they are assassinated or executed. It is in everybody's interest (except maybe the North Koreans themselves) for Kim Jong Un to stay in power.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    Sorry, but if you start a war, and lose it, you don't get to make stipulations for surrender...
    Negotiation have always been part of a surrender.... to save life of all involved. It might not always been fair but you did negotiate. WW1 change the game rules to unconditional surrender.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    The bomb wasn't needed to make Germany surrender, being stuck between 2 fronts and having their capital city conquered did the trick just fine

    And yes, I think Japan would have surrendered without the bombs, the negotiations would have been a much better way of doing things, dropping the bombs was an important cause of the Cold War.
    sorry to burst your bubble captain jack ass, but Japan is a country that would fight tooth and nail until the last japanese soldier was cold and dead on the ground, their leaders may have surrendered but we were still WEEDING their army out of the surrounding islands for awhile afterwards, you're just some biased US hating bigot who thinks he is more fit to make decisions than the president of the time, and do you really think, if the united states was SO horrible, we would SANCTION AND BAN THE USE OF ALL NUCLEAR WEAPONS FROM THAT POINT ON? really?

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    Last edited by Pendulous; 2013-04-21 at 05:36 PM.

  6. #46
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    I think it was completely unnecessary and they just wanted to test their bombs more, totally ignoring the huge amount of casualties it would bring.

  7. #47
    One positive aspect of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs has been that nobody has since dropped a nuclear bomb as an act of war.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by a77 View Post
    Negotiation have always been part of a surrender.... to save life of all involved. It might not always been fair but you did negotiate. WW1 change the game rules to unconditional surrender.
    I don't remember Attilla the Hun ever even giving his enemieis (women, children, men, all slaughtered by his hand) a chance to surrender. War is not black and white like all of you childish tools seem to think, there are many TOUGH decisions that must be made and the United States has taken THOUSANDS of steps in stopping pointless brutality and is the defending force of over 60 OTHER countries

  9. #49
    Banned Åmbulance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    One positive aspect of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs has been that nobody has since dropped a nuclear bomb as an act of war.
    This what i have ALWAYS wondered, say we didn't drop the bombs. What would have the Cold War actually become.

  10. #50
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    This what i have ALWAYS wondered, say we didn't drop the bombs. What would have the Cold War actually become.
    Most likely, it would've kicked off. Don't forget, that during the Cold War, there was times where they genuinely believed that the button was about to pressed! I think one of the factors that prevented both sides, was the knowledge of what had happened last time these devices were used!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    This what i have ALWAYS wondered, say we didn't drop the bombs. What would have the Cold War actually become.
    I think the world would probably have ended between 14 October and 28 October 1962.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    All nations have permanent dark stains on their history, the United Kingdom has our fair share of horrific acts.

    The one problem that the United States suffers from is their chest thumping. This over-the-top constant screaming about what a great nation you are. I'm not starting an argument, just saying, from what I have seen and heard, the world is just sick of the attitude the U.S. has, not its past.
    ^^this.

    Everyone knows victors get to write the history books.

    But even the British, who created the greatest empire the world has ever seen and likely ever will again, well before the advent of the Internet and therefore easy dissemination of information, acknowledged and apologized for most of the atrocities they committed in their interests.

    The US is startling for just how much they refuse to realize the damage they have caused and continue to cause (and by they I mean the people themselves, not just the administration which is normally the only the part of a country that tries to hide its past shames due to current interests).

    As for Korea starting a nuclear war, especially with its immediate neighbor, that's a joke that's not worth even considering, imo. They know from geography alone that this would be guaranteed mutual destruction. They also know starting such a war with anyone else would mean their total destruction. This is not to say it could never ever happen, but even if it did, the situation would resolve itself fast.

    Besides, the current stalemate situation suits all parties just fine, including the US, the North Korean elite, the South Korean government, China, Russia and Japan.
    Last edited by squeeze; 2013-04-21 at 04:25 PM.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flam View Post
    Nope, we just obliterated their country by more conventional means, it might as well been nuked from all the destruction from the carpet bombing.
    Then why where nukes necesary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    The bombing was needed to give good reason to those that did surrender, to put down their weapons. If the bombs never dropped, I'm sure tens of thousands more, would've kept fighting!
    I'm going to keep telling you this, you're not sure, you are assuming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitterfly View Post
    It's easy to be the good guy when your responsibilities are nothing while pointing and calling the other criminal when his responsibilities are grand.
    I personally had nothing to do with it, and no US citizen alive today has nothing to do with nukes dropped 3/4 of a century ago. Instead of feeling offended people should learn from mistakes made in history (wich most people, fortunatly, did).
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    I'm proud to be xenophobic.
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

  14. #54
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasako View Post
    this is the DUMBEST post I've EVER read, the United states stayed well AWAY from World War II and it's issues because we wanted NOTHING to do with it, and on top of that, the most internally opposed!?! nowhere CLOSE to opposed as the Vietnam conflict was. Get your facts straight before you start bashing entire nations of people when you have no fucking idea what you're even talking about, that's disgustingly offensive to any and all involved for you to even PRETEND to know what you're talking about
    Unfortunately you seem to be suffering from misconceptions. I implore you to read about the history of the war and US actions from the mid-to-late 1930's until the end of WWII.
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  15. #55
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    All nations have permanent dark stains on their history, the United Kingdom has our fair share of horrific acts.

    The one problem that the United States suffers from is their chest thumping. This over-the-top constant screaming about what a great nation you are. I'm not starting an argument, just saying, from what I have seen and heard, the world is just sick of the attitude the U.S. has, not its past.
    I can agree with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    I'm proud to be xenophobic.
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    This what i have ALWAYS wondered, say we didn't drop the bombs. What would have the Cold War actually become.
    Well the power of the bombs was still known, the Tsar Bomba being detonated contributed to the Cuban missile crisis being resolved as much as anything else.

  17. #57
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I think the world would probably have ended between 14 October and 28 October 1962.
    Christ...

    No it wouldnt have, the countries who tested and developed the nuclear warheads knew EXACTLY what would happen if they dropped them on a city. Japan was a show of power for the world. The test explosions during development would have given them more than enough information as to how destructive they were. Even a layman could take one look at a nuclear explosion and know.

  18. #58
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MC ALPACA FLAYME View Post
    Not to mention we had broken the Japanese code and intercepted nearly all their messages, including those heavily suggesting unconditional surrender, before we even dropped the first bomb.
    Wasn't the US also winning ground and took over most of the islands and such in the Pacific Ocean at the end of the war? Would it not have been possible for the US to cut off all supply lines for Japan so they had no choice but to surrender?

  19. #59
    I think Japan should have surrendered after the first bomb, then the second would not have happened.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  20. #60
    Dreadlord Darkrulerxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MC ALPACA FLAYME View Post
    Unfortunately you seem to be suffering from misconceptions. I implore you to read about the history of the war and US actions from the mid-to-late 1930's until the end of WWII.
    if you read as you implore Rasako to do so, It is also stated that the rumors of Japan's surrender was unconfirmed and most likely false due to the fact that they wanted to press on the war to keep Japan's emperor in power. "Saying" that japan wanted to surrender doesn't mean they were going to surrender. There was a lot of murkiness to both sides, But it is the way it is, and i'm glad that it DID end the war.

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