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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by kazih View Post
    Not helping "them" on their kill is exactly the point to not relase a video before 2nd kill or middle of reset, not releasing before a world first is simply good manners which Russians appareantly do not have.

    Very few guilds care and I bet few were sad because of the video and most were joyous.

  2. #102
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    It's just like with real sports. Nobody cares who finishes as 4th, 5th, 6th and so on.
    The race for the top 3 already was over.

    But anyways. Like I already said, what has been done has been done.
    Raging in the comments of the video shows just as much bad manners as releasing a vid early. No...not really. It shows that some people actually have waaaay worse manners even.
    Just get over it.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I actually think that the vast majority are thankful to Exorsus for releasing the video so early. It helps them on their kill.
    Very few guilds actually give a **** about killing it before a video or whatnot. It's just a lame excuse right now from Method / BL.

    Exorsus did the community a favor. They helped them and I thank them for that.
    when you get a top 10 World kill or hell even a top 200 you can speak for the hardcore raiding community and what they want. until then shut it. Yeah everyone in the raiding community hardcore or not wanted a video but You don't understand the way things have gone since vanilla. The guild who gets world first gets to be the first to release. and these communist's decided they were better than the rest of the community. Maybe Exorsus should learn to play there classes better and actually earn a world first then they can release there vid whenever they want and not look like dicks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    It's just like with real sports. Nobody cares who finishes as 4th, 5th, 6th and so on.
    The race for the top 3 already was over.

    But anyways. Like I already said, what has been done has been done.
    Raging in the comments of the video shows just as much bad manners as releasing a vid early. No...not really. It shows that some people actually have waaaay worse manners even.
    Just get over it.
    US 2nd still meant a hell of a lot. Or at least it did until the video was released.

    Infracted; Don't bash a guild. (Sonnillon)
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-22 at 03:36 PM.
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  4. #104
    The more I read from Method this tier the more I start to think they're pathetic, this thread is a great example. I understand that this might not be how the release of kill videos has happened in the past, and it's a move in bad taste but seriously the comments from Method are childish and pathetic. There are better ways to go about this instead of turning into a bunch of crying tools.
    Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-04-22 at 01:38 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    when you get a top 10 World kill you can speak for the community. until then shut it. You don't understand the way things have gone since vanilla. The guild who gets world first gets to be the first to release. and these communist's decided they were better. Maybe Exorsus should learn to play better and actually earn a world first then they can release there vid whenever they want and not look like dicks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:28 PM ----------


    US 2nd still meant a hell of a lot. Or at least it did until the video was released.

    So the higher of rank I am, the more I can open my mouth and talk about the community? Okay. Thank you for this knowledge.

    Tell you what, Exorsus is top 10 and they told exactly what they think of said community by releasing the video first. And I am glad they did so.

    Time for the selfish top guilds to come out of their bubble and get real.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    when you get a top 10 World kill you can speak for the community. until then shut it. You don't understand the way things have gone since vanilla. The guild who gets world first gets to be the first to release. and these communist's decided they were better. Maybe Exorsus should learn to play better and actually earn a world first then they can release there vid whenever they want and not look like dicks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:28 PM ----------


    US 2nd still meant a hell of a lot. Or at least it did until the video was released.
    Keep your mindless hate of communism to yourself, kids. You have no idea what your talking about. Be less brainwashed, please

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    when you get a top 10 World kill you can speak for the community. until then shut it. You don't understand the way things have gone since vanilla. The guild who gets world first gets to be the first to release. and these communist's decided they were better. Maybe Exorsus should learn to play better and actually earn a world first then they can release there vid whenever they want and not look like dicks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:28 PM ----------


    US 2nd still meant a hell of a lot. Or at least it did until the video was released.
    I'm sorry i don't see your top 10 world kill, and yet you're speaking for community.
    P.S. "the community" isn't even done with the normal primo, so top 10 world kill would be even farther from the community.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Krolikn View Post
    Keep your mindless hate of communism to yourself, kids. You have no idea what your talking about. Be less brainwashed, please
    hitler said the same thing about communism as you just did. How did that one work out?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I'm sorry i don't see your top 10 world kill, and yet you're speaking for community.
    P.S. "the community" isn't even done with the normal primo, so top 10 world kill would be even farther from the community.
    I'm not Im just telling a LFR hero that know's 0 about the real "raiding community" what is up. I know multiple of the people on my real ID sitting in top 5 US guilds right now would have loved to see ra-den without a video ruining the experience.

    If you didnt realize ra-den is a shit boss. the only allure of it was the mystery. Now no mystery boring ass fight. Oh well at least its not 20 min of sha.
    Last edited by momirmaster; 2013-04-22 at 01:44 PM.
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    hitler said the same thing about communism as you just did. How did that one work out?
    Another proof of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    Thanks for ignorance.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by rigginsbear View Post
    People seem to forget many of the aspects in regards to how this all works. Then again, maybe they just don't understand in the first place. I will do what I can to explain it.

    All of this interest and desire for the community to follow the 'race' is created due to how complex and entertaining it is. To say that 'its just a game' is a bit of an understatement. Sure, its a "game" that we all play, but at the same time it is much more than that. This isn't something as simple as playing Angry Birds on your iphone while you're waiting to fall asleep at night. It's far far far more complex than that.

    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, time plays a -huge- part in it, but that isn't even close to the whole puzzle. Do you think its a coincidence that the Top 4 Guilds on Lei Shen (unlimted pull counter) finished in the Top 4 on Ra-den (limited pull counter)? The top guilds are where they are because of many variables, strategy, talent, and chemistry being among the most important. I say that not to open an entire new can of worms, but rather to let you know that much more goes into this type of thing than many people realize. That, along with the fact it pains me to see guilds work their asses off to get where they are at/should be only to have it ruined by something outside of their control. Example:

    Do you think that the guilds that are still working on the fight and are super close appreciate a video being released in the middle of the week? What about the guilds who have ALREADY USED their 30 attempts? Get real. Do you think its fair to them to be at a lower ranking because another guild waited until Sun/Mon/Tue to use their pulls and was able to copy a video from another guild?

    No matter how you spin it, the vid shouldn't have been released during the middle of this reset. I understand people wanted to see it, and everyone would have seen it after this raiding cycle reset. Everyone needs to understand that this is all bigger than them. This isn't about what some random person wants to see 'now' instead of the 'appropriate' time. I realize that some of you will disagree and support the side of releasing videos as soon as you kill a boss, but hopefully this gets through to some of you and allows you to see the issues with having things like this happen. Either way it goes, whats done is done. I just hope the top guilds are able to agree on things going forward on things like this and it doesn't turn into an issue again. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, we'll just have to see. Regardless of the outcome, you can be assured it is something we are pushing for.

    The purity of the race is something that allows people to see the actual talent of these guilds and not just who can copy a video the fastest.
    Can't believe im answering this, but here is goes.
    First of all, the general rule has been wait for the second guild to kill the boss, then release the video. It's not a rule but most guilds feel morally obliged to do that.
    Now it's okay if you feel that the race should keep going and save the video, but it's not up to you to decide that, it's not up to you to say when the race is over and when it isn't. It doesn't matter if you're the one leading the race or not, it's up to every individual that possesses it.

    Now here's where your logic starts falling downhill.
    Killing something with limited attempts will always have a risk vs reward factor inside it. If you wait with your attempts you may come up with a better strategy, a tactic may have been hotfixed, a new tactic may have appeared from an hotfix etc. If you do wait however you put yourself in a vulnerable sitatuion, instead of doing early attempts you wait with them, which creates a chance that another guild could come in and kill it before in that timespan that you waited.
    You have to evalute the risk and reward when it's limiting attempts before smashing your head against the boss 30 times.

    The bigger issue with your text is that you're forgetting a key problem. Can you be 100% sure that none of your raiders, none of methods raiders or none of paragons raiders told anyone of thier friends information about the encounter? You can't. If you talk about being fair to everyone and letting the race be fair it's practically impossible when over 100 people know exactly what to do and how to do it. They also loose nothign on telling thier close friend from midwinter, envy etc. This makes it so the ones with best contact with the current "best guilds" will have a huge advantage over the ones who doesn't have any contact with the top guilds. It's currently you guys who runs the race. Not releasing a video and holding it. You can even argue that by doing this, you create an even bigger "unfair" advantage for certain guilds.

    The fight in itself doesn't look that complex and i feel like it's mostly a execute issue anyways, I may be wrong on this part though and don't want to comment on it too much.

    Full respect to all the guilds that have killed ra-den, I made sure to watch all of the videos as i think all of you deserve it alot. Good job this tier.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Telefonorm View Post
    Can't believe im answering this, but here is goes.
    First of all, the general rule has been wait for the second guild to kill the boss, then release the video. It's not a rule but most guilds feel morally obliged to do that.
    Now it's okay if you feel that the race should keep going and save the video, but it's not up to you to decide that, it's not up to you to say when the race is over and when it isn't. It doesn't matter if you're the one leading the race or not, it's up to every individual that possesses it.

    Now here's where your logic starts falling downhill.
    Killing something with limited attempts will always have a risk vs reward factor inside it. If you wait with your attempts you may come up with a better strategy, a tactic may have been hotfixed, a new tactic may have appeared from an hotfix etc. If you do wait however you put yourself in a vulnerable sitatuion, instead of doing early attempts you wait with them, which creates a chance that another guild could come in and kill it before in that timespan that you waited.
    You have to evalute the risk and reward when it's limiting attempts before smashing your head against the boss 30 times.

    The bigger issue with your text is that you're forgetting a key problem. Can you be 100% sure that none of your raiders, none of methods raiders or none of paragons raiders told anyone of thier friends information about the encounter? You can't. If you talk about being fair to everyone and letting the race be fair it's practically impossible when over 100 people know exactly what to do and how to do it. They also loose nothign on telling thier close friend from midwinter, envy etc. This makes it so the ones with best contact with the current "best guilds" will have a huge advantage over the ones who doesn't have any contact with the top guilds. It's currently you guys who runs the race. Not releasing a video and holding it. You can even argue that by doing this, you create an even bigger "unfair" advantage for certain guilds.

    The fight in itself doesn't look that complex and i feel like it's mostly a execute issue anyways, I may be wrong on this part though and don't want to comment on it too much.

    Full respect to all the guilds that have killed ra-den, I made sure to watch all of the videos as i think all of you deserve it alot. Good job this tier.
    that's part of the fun of this game though back channel sources and such have been in this game since vanilla. People defecting in the middle of a tier. Or people sharing strategies. we have 3 different players in 3 different top 10 US guild's who we can go to for advice on any fight and its the reason we are sitting US 12th instead of US 20th. That is the fun of the "community" The video did need to be released but like rigg said. It had a time to be released. The Tuesday after the US 2nd kill. BL killed the boss this reset. So Tuesday would have been the ideal time to release the video or even Wednesday since EU rest and US re clear.

    You seem to forget blizz has this tier. STOPPED hotfixing bosses inbetween resets unless it was a major bug. Which is why council 10 man was only killed by 2 guilds week 1 before being nerfed at reset. Blizzards is doing there part for a fair race in each individual bracket 10 and 25. Heroic council 25 man too was 4 days of guilds running face into it before it was nerfed AT reset's.
    Last edited by momirmaster; 2013-04-22 at 01:57 PM.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    I'm not Im just telling a LFR hero that know's 0 about the real "raiding community" what is up. I know multiple of the people on my real ID sitting in top 5 US guilds right now would have loved to see ra-den without a video ruining the experience.

    If you didnt realize ra-den is a shit boss. the only allure of it was the mystery. Now no mystery boring ass fight. Oh well at least its not 20 min of sha.
    At this point 8 guilds killed him, how long were they suppose to wait ? Until 5 guilds on us killed lei-shen ?

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Another proof of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    Thanks for ignorance.
    Another proof of law about people telling "godwins law" whenever they ctrl+f word hitler in a forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRet

    "This server shutdown was so epic not even Illidan was prepared for it"

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    hitler said the same thing about communism as you just did. How did that one work out?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:43 PM ----------



    I'm not Im just telling a LFR hero that know's 0 about the real "raiding community" what is up. I know multiple of the people on my real ID sitting in top 5 US guilds right now would have loved to see ra-den without a video ruining the experience.

    If you didnt realize ra-den is a shit boss. the only allure of it was the mystery. Now no mystery boring ass fight. Oh well at least its not 20 min of sha.
    I don't really think you're in a position to say anything about the top raiding guilds, considering most of them don't consider your format a real format.

    Warning; No need to compare 10vs25 raiding guild or formats. (Sonnillon)
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-22 at 03:52 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    At this point 8 guilds killed him, how long were they suppose to wait ? Until 5 guilds on us killed lei-shen ?
    nah it was time but that doesn't change the fact that the video should have been released at reset like BL and Method had planned. and it doesn't change the fact that ra-den is a shit tier boss that will go down as one of the worst designed bosses in the history of wow. Patchwork version 4 as a end boss anyone?
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    nah it was time but that doesn't change the fact that the video should have been released at reset like BL and Method had planned. and it doesn't change the fact that ra-den is a shit tier boss that will go down as one of the worst designed bosses in the history of wow. Patchwork version 4 as a end boss anyone?
    One of the worst designed ? Hardly.
    And it was never intended to be "wow look at those mechanic" bosses, it was a "wtb more gear" boss.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by CausalXXLinkXx View Post
    I don't really think you're in a position to say anything about the top raiding guilds, considering most of them don't consider your format a real format.
    why cause in 10 man healer's actually have to heal? or you know 6 healing bosses in 25 man with healers doing 75k each when the same boss is 3 healed in 10 with healers pulling 100k+ yeah ok. Overall this Tier is like 4 bosses harder on 10 4 on 25 man and 5 even bosses. So this tier is one of the most balanced there has ever been. But people like you are the reason that 10 man's get no respect even though on alot of these fights we have to pull higher numbers and not ignore mechanics.
    Last edited by momirmaster; 2013-04-22 at 02:15 PM.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    nah it was time but that doesn't change the fact that the video should have been released at reset like BL and Method had planned. and it doesn't change the fact that ra-den is a shit tier boss that will go down as one of the worst designed bosses in the history of wow. Patchwork version 4 as a end boss anyone?
    sadly, BL and Method plans wont be enforced on exorsus. exorsus can do what ever the fuck they want.

    Ra Den is not the end boss, Ra Den is optional/extra boss.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    that's part of the fun of this game though back channel sources and such have been in this game since vanilla. People defecting in the middle of a tier. Or people sharing strategies. we have 3 different players in 3 different top 10 US guild's who we can go to for advice on any fight and its the reason we are sitting US 12th instead of US 20th. That is the fun of the "community" The video did need to be released but like rigg said. It had a time to be released. The Tuesday after the US 2nd kill. BL killed the boss this reset. So Tuesday would have been the ideal time to release the video or even Wednesday since EU rest and US re clear.
    So the talk about "purity of the race" is more or less bollocks - it's more about not losing your information advantage through inside sources?

    Edit: Really liked Blood Legions Video, editing for Method seems more like cutting the wipe before und idling in og after.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    why cause in 10 man healer's actually have to heal? or you know 6 healing bosses in 25 man with healers doing 75k each when the same boss is 3 healed in 10 with healers pulling 100k+ yeah ok.
    I'm pretty sure that went completely over your head. Regardless of actual difficulty most people in the top guilds do not consider 10 man format a legitimate format. Sorry.

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