1. #1

    Boomkin simple question.

    Hi, I'm a 518 ilvl boomkin raiding casually. (sorry no armory link since it's my first post)
    Here's my question: On a fight where there's more than one target but you don't have to dps both ( Megaera) is it worth it to dot both heads? A fellow boomkin once told me that the extra SS procs we get by doing that make our single target dps better, but I'm not sure he's right.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    It's a single target DPS increase.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    It depends.

    Usually doting the the head you didn't kill right before it goes under water is a dps increase. This is because even though that head is inactive under water, your dots are still ticking and giving you more chances at SS for the next head to focus during rampage.

    As for doting both heads all the time, it would depend on your gear/trinkets and the amount of wasted SS procs you are getting. If you are overlapping SS to much it becomes wasted GCDs doting up the head you aren't focusing. You will need to gauge yourself and logs to see if you are noticing a lot of overlapping SS procs.

    Simple safe answer: Dot the "full health" head before it goes under water only. Then continue dps on your next "focus head" during rampage as you normally would.

    Simple answer with potentially less dps, or higher: Keep dots up full time on two heads.

  4. #4
    Blademaster
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    If you play with Breath of the Hydra It's most likely going to be a dps increase single target as you'll get more procs with more dots. Apart from that it depends on your crit wether it will be a dps increase or not. When i tested this with a fellow chicken from my guild it turned out to be a slight dps increase overall.

    EDIT: On megaera that is.

  5. #5
    I don't believe anyone has done the math recently to determine the answer conclusively. Last tier it was determined that the answer was no, but that at some point this tier it may become worthwhile. Someone did some napkin math a bit back that suggested that, with his gear, it was worthwhile, but I don't believe the math was actually vetted. I'm inclined to believe that it is not (outside of UVLS dots and the situation Souxlya described), but it is probably a close call (and if you like to pad the meters, an easy position to take).

    That being said, no amount of "testing with a fellow chicken" will be conclusive, as that fails to control for far too many variables. In addition, the way RPPM trinkets work Breath of the Hydra should NOT benefit (or be harmed) from the additional targets.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by HarleyM View Post
    I don't believe anyone has done the math recently to determine the answer conclusively. Last tier it was determined that the answer was no, but that at some point this tier it may become worthwhile. Someone did some napkin math a bit back that suggested that, with his gear, it was worthwhile, but I don't believe the math was actually vetted. I'm inclined to believe that it is not (outside of UVLS dots and the situation Souxlya described), but it is probably a close call (and if you like to pad the meters, an easy position to take).

    That being said, no amount of "testing with a fellow chicken" will be conclusive, as that fails to control for far too many variables. In addition, the way RPPM trinkets work Breath of the Hydra should NOT benefit (or be harmed) from the additional targets.
    I remember that post. The napkin math concluded somewhere around 32% crit it becomes worthwhile.

    It seems to me, that if you average one extra starsurge proc per eclipse cycle due to multi-dotting, it would be worthwhile. It's pretty easy to imagine that occurring with a 518 ilevel. You're probably sitting at 35% crit raid buffed easily.

    Even if it's not worthwhile outside of trinket procs, it most certainly is worthwhile during CA. 1 GCD to apply two dots.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Even if it's not worthwhile outside of trinket procs, it most certainly is worthwhile during CA. 1 GCD to apply two dots.
    ^ I forgot to mention CA, like Earth said this is a great place to do it no matter. Just be prepared that you might need to cut off Starfire casts, or not cast it at all if you start to get to many overlapping procs, even during this. You'll have to see how it is every time you use CA.

    Earth I wasn't sure what you meant by trinket procs. Are you referring to haste procs, or the more common int ones? The small amount of crit we'd gain from the int procs I don't think would make it 100% worthwhile, unless you just entered eclipse and have nature's grace. I'm curious because I haven't had a lot of time to practice the perma double dot on Meg, since I've healed it 80% of out kills. Just wondering if I forgetting something.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    ^ I forgot to mention CA, like Earth said this is a great place to do it no matter. Just be prepared that you might need to cut off Starfire casts, or not cast it at all if you start to get to many overlapping procs, even during this. You'll have to see how it is every time you use CA.

    Earth I wasn't sure what you meant by trinket procs. Are you referring to haste procs, or the more common int ones? The small amount of crit we'd gain from the int procs I don't think would make it 100% worthwhile, unless you just entered eclipse and have nature's grace. I'm curious because I haven't had a lot of time to practice the perma double dot on Meg, since I've healed it 80% of out kills. Just wondering if I forgetting something.
    I was mainly thinking haste. It's actually still a rather substantial amount of crit that we gain from int procs though, on the order of 4-5%.

    There's some quality of life gains by multi-dotting on that fight anyway. Quite a lot of movement might be required on your part in heroic especially, having to kite the frost to the back of the room, or putting out frost patches with the fire debuff. Having those extra procs, or at least something to do while moving (dotting up the green head), negates some of the movement penalty. So even if mult-dotting isn't a gain on a patchwerk style fight, on an actual real world fight, it more than likely is.

    I don't have hard numbers, so don't quote me.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2013-04-23 at 12:06 AM.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Cool that helps clear up a tad of confusion on my part. I suspect we'll be trying heroic next week, or the week after. But I have a feeling I'll be healing it anyway so won't make a huge difference.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    2 rules: If UVLS procs DOT EVERYTHING!

    If CA is up DOT EVERYTHING!

    I'm inclined to think with my gear (ilv 523) 37% crit raid buffed etc it may be worth it, but I also feel on fights like HC maeraga, if I don't switch to aoe the adds, we may wipe. Even in situations where it would be a personal DPS increase, you still need to evaluate if that is effective dps, or if it is in the place where the dps is most needed to ensure a kill. It's no good being top on damage, and nuking the head more than any other if you wipe to adds etc.


    Vexxe of Old School looking for established and reliable RBG Team to push HOTH PM me.






  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    2 rules: If UVLS procs DOT EVERYTHING!

    If CA is up DOT EVERYTHING!

    I'm inclined to think with my gear (ilv 523) 37% crit raid buffed etc it may be worth it, but I also feel on fights like HC maeraga, if I don't switch to aoe the adds, we may wipe. Even in situations where it would be a personal DPS increase, you still need to evaluate if that is effective dps, or if it is in the place where the dps is most needed to ensure a kill. It's no good being top on damage, and nuking the head more than any other if you wipe to adds etc.
    Our AOE is kind of weak, in my 25M, I wasn't even slightly competitive for AOE'ing the ads. All I did to them was solar beam.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Our AOE is kind of weak, in my 25M, I wasn't even slightly competitive for AOE'ing the ads. All I did to them was solar beam.
    I solar beam, and vortex. I only AOE if I'm in a fresh solar eclipse with NG still up. I'm not saying we should (or shouldn't) aoe on Maegara, I was just trying to highlight my point with a fight that's relevant and fresh in my mind.


    Vexxe of Old School looking for established and reliable RBG Team to push HOTH PM me.






  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    I solar beam, and vortex. I only AOE if I'm in a fresh solar eclipse with NG still up. I'm not saying we should (or shouldn't) aoe on Maegara, I was just trying to highlight my point with a fight that's relevant and fresh in my mind.
    Fair enough.

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