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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    if it takes you more than a week to level from 1 to 90 at this point you are doing something horribly wrong.
    Or maybe only play a few hours a day. Yeah, the horror, those players who do other things other than sitting in front of a monitor leveling up all day mucking about in our game.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Sure.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/2...al-Discussions
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/

    long term observation is helpful in drawing a conclusion.
    At a glance I don't see what you are claiming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Simply put you are delusional. Wrath was the EASIEST expac to pug a raid. At the height of WOTLK raiding I easily pugged each and every alt through content. With both ten and twentyfive options open there was never a lack of things to do. But then we make shared lockouts to keep the smarter ten man players from leveraging 25gear against 10 progression, followed by tuning 25 content to be easier than 10 in order to keep the prestigious 25 man guilds together. It has just been a string of bad moves after one another.
    Wrath had easier 10man content (with lower Ilevel) but it was the first time we had two different raid sizes for the same content. Prior to this 10man was for ZA/KARA and of lesser difficulty.

    Pugs were quite common during wrath. Not sure in MOP though guess LFR fills that gap more than previous?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    This i sjust my opinion and I know others wont share it and I'm fine with that and actually happy there are different opinions on this subject... how borring would it be if we all agreed :P
    Having read through your post, I can say it resonated very strongly with how I view the game. So yeah, it's not just your opinion

    Given that this also is a fair representation of how most of friends who play also feel, I would say it is an opinion shared by the majority of casual players!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Or maybe only play a few hours a day. Yeah, the horror, those players who do other things other than sitting in front of a monitor leveling up all day mucking about in our game.
    Which brings me back to my original point. Do you feel that you shouldn't have to put the time in? Or do you accept that you're simply not willing to.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 11:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    At a glance I don't see what you are claiming.
    Hence the long term observation thing.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Which brings me back to my original point. Do you feel that you shouldn't have to put the time in? Or do you accept that you're simply not willing to.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 11:23 AM ----------



    Hence the long term observation thing.
    You have a certain point but wow has always been a casual aimed game. From the day it came out and until today. It has evolved and changed to match it. I don't have the same time to play that I used to. I will still level the odd alt (I rarely bother tbh so I just play on mains most the time but when I do its ok).

    Blizzard simply wants to ensure players can do what they want and adjusts the game to make sure players get what they want etc. Good or bad is all down to opinion.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Which brings me back to my original point. Do you feel that you shouldn't have to put the time in? Or do you accept that you're simply not willing to.
    Just what are replying to? What you quoted from me was in answer to someone who said if you can't level up 1 to 90 in under a week then there was "something wrong with you"? if you are going to twist someone's else's words in your argument of casuals being people with contempt of people time in for rewards you might actually want to read that person's quote. And to answer your question it's an arbitrary point; time/reward ratios are quite subjective and just because you find more reward from bigger time sinks does not equate to everyone placing the same value on that reward for that time spent. I just finished grinding my 9999 bones for white raptor and as a mount collector I was quite happy with that but if Blizzard decided that not enough people as they like have the white raptor because they decided that their time was better and lowered the amount to 999 bones it wouldn't bother me.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Just what are replying to? What you quoted from me was in answer to someone who said if you can't level up 1 to 90 in under a week then there was "something wrong with you"? if you are going to twist someone's else's words in your argument of casuals being people with contempt of people time in for rewards you might actually want to read that person's quote.
    You're correct. My mistake.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  9. #49
    Dreadlord Dawnseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    There is a certain blue who has commented on this regularly, and I agree with him. Some people hit level 90 in 2 days. Most didn't. It took me three weeks to reach level 90. I play around 3 hours a day every day. I was the 6th person in my guild to reach level 90, and those that got there before there put in a lot of effort (above what they normally do) to get there.

    MoP has been out for what, like 6 months now? I play 3 hours a day and still have tons of stuff to do and I barely manage to find any time to level an alt or do pvp.

    Honestly, if you absolutely need to find something to spend more than 100 hours a month on, then maybe play something else in addition to WoW...
    This is me. I get to play about 3 hours a day almost every day and longer on weekends, and it also took me about 3 weeks to ding 90. I have 9 at 90 now and still have a To Do list the size of my arm. All professions are maxed on everyone and I managed to get a team of 10 pets to lvl 25 for battling, but I haven't raided, don't have all my valor/rep gear, and haven't focused on any achievements. I'm not yet over my personal finish line (I don't need BiS since I don't raid, but I like to do the best I can and try to get out of blues), but this is fine. I'll get where I want to be eventually and it bothers me that people think I'm not willing to "put the time in" like others do just because I'm "casual". Believe me, I'm putting in a crapload of time. Granted, it's spread out over a larger base than some other people who only need to concentrate on 1-3 characters, but how putting in 35-40 hours a week (3 hrs x 5 days + 10-12 per day on weekends) makes a person a slacker escapes me. How much more time does a "casual" have to put in to not be looked down upon?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    if it takes you more than a week to level from 1 to 90 at this point you are doing something horribly wrong.
    If it takes less than a week you are playing far too much even the quickest players take about three days played time most people will be roughly double this and even longer for a first time player.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    I wonder why some people need to write so much for such an easy answer to an obvious question.

    : Nothing.

    Why? Because what milions of people want is better than what few thousands people want.
    From a business perspective, yes. Keeping the larger "casual" group would be more profitable than keeping the small group of "hardcore" players. It makes the most sense, of course, to try and keep both groups happy.

    The problem as I see it is that you get a vocal minority who feel that the game was made personally for them, or that the time and money that they have spent gives them ownership of the game. Whether they are casual or hardcore, it doesn't matter, so we get all this hatred spewing back and forth over changes and adjustments because they're seen as an insult to and betrayal of the "true" players of the game.

    People really just need to calm down and enjoy the game for what it is. I've been playing since vanilla and there have been things I've loved, and hated, about each iteration of the game that have come around. I have a lot of time and money invested in WoW and my main, as many people do. However, if people are honestly taking changes to a game as seriously as their comments and tweets and posts indicate, then it might be time for them to push the keyboard and mouse aside and do something else for a while.

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Casuals played the game even when it was designed for hard core gamers. It gave them something to look up to and strive towards, even if they would never actually be able to achiev it. It's what got me into the game. Seeing people in amazing gear, and hoping someday I'd be good enough to get it for myself. Now that anybody can get anything in game, it's become less enjoyable.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    You must be describing some different game... because the game I played back in TBC was 100000x better than the game it is now. The good blizzard that created WoW wouldn't have allowed the game to go downhill while stupid features such as pet battles were being created... but that's why blizzard moved them to Titan because they couldn't trust what the dev team on WoW is doing now. The reason why people refer to TBC as anti casual, is because it was indeed harder. Not everyone was able to see all the content. Not every guild was able to enter and finish sunwell. Most of the guilds on my realm would only do trash, aside from the few that were actually on bosses. Where do you see that now? Where do you see decent guilds being tossed aside by raids because they just don't cut it? It seems like the game caters to everyone now... I'm not talking about LFR because that's something in its own... but when do you ever see a typical guild that isn't bad, but isn't amazing... walk into a raid and get no where. Never... you just don't see that anymore because blizzard has this mentality that if you have a clean run with little issues, you'll be more engaged and will likely spend more time playing... but there's a massive flaw. The players are beating the content quicker than they can pump out because it's too easy. So that leaves the players with only one reason to play, gear. So the only thing keeping players around is RNG... but as soon as their character has all BiS... there's really no reason to play. I've seen it in Wotlk... people were quitting in ToT because they already had their best gear and we were only raiding so that we'd have BiS for ICC when it came out. Here's the solution, you either make content challenging enough so that players have to sit there and get better at the game, or you keep the content at the same difficulty, but you pump it out quicker. Creating pet battles, or any other feature is just a sign of "We're aware there are issues with our game, but we're going to create pitiful features to distract you of all the bad aspects in our game." Just waiting on Titan at this point.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    Casuals played the game even when it was designed for hard core gamers. It gave them something to look up to and strive towards, even if they would never actually be able to achiev it. It's what got me into the game. Seeing people in amazing gear, and hoping someday I'd be good enough to get it for myself. Now that anybody can get anything in game, it's become less enjoyable.
    This effect fails when you realize you won't be getting that stuff, that it was all a bait-and-switch.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  15. #55
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    The issue isn't that it's appealing to casuals, the issue is that people fear that Blizzard will eventually ONLY appeal to casuals, and there will be nothing that is for the more 'hardcore' players.

    There's also the stereotype that a 'casual' player is an entitled lazy brat, and threads on the official forums like this don't help.
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    Casuals played the game even when it was designed for hard core gamers. It gave them something to look up to and strive towards, even if they would never actually be able to achiev it. It's what got me into the game. Seeing people in amazing gear, and hoping someday I'd be good enough to get it for myself. Now that anybody can get anything in game, it's become less enjoyable.
    This is one of the biggest problem facing casual players, they do not look up to or strive to be like the hard core gamers, they just want to play to have fun. It is only the supposed hard core find that the game less enjoyable when more content is opened up to the player base as a whole as they can no longer exclude the rest of the players from the content and gear that they, mistakenly, think brings them respect.
    Last edited by Pann; 2013-04-22 at 04:37 PM.

  17. #57
    The only thing, that irritates me these days is what some casual players wants the game to be. Reading blue posts in which someone complains about the loot, that is not given with every single LFR attempt or heroic raids, being too hard for majority of gamers (which is obviously their role), makes me feel terrible. I am spitting feathers when i can notice people bitching in-game about how hard the LFR boss can be, regarding the encounter where they are actually forced to do anything to survive.

    It seems like some wants to have more, to have access to a "premium" content, without any effor put in getting it.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Which brings me back to my original point. Do you feel that you shouldn't have to put the time in? Or do you accept that you're simply not willing to.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 11:23 AM ----------



    Hence the long term observation thing.
    Then your links are worthless sources.

    Your anecdotal evidence is no better than mine, and from my long term observations there are far more threads complaining about "casuals" then there are "casuals" complaining about the game. =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    A mod needs to make a sticky at the top of the forum in cap-locks that says "CASUAL DOES NOT MEAN BAD".

    Seriously... A casual is just someone that plays the game casually, it has nothing to do with their skill.

    Skill wise a casual can be bad, average, good, amazing, etc..


  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    So, your problem is that other people don't want what you want them to want.

    Is it ok that we ignore what you want? Or does that only work in one direction?
    You can say the same thing about your constant complaints with the current raiding system, Osmeric.

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