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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie View Post
    Maybe Baine should get the final blow to avenge his dad.
    Magatha is more responsible for Cairne's death than Garrosh.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Literally everything we have encountered to this date would prove you very, VERY wrong about that.

    Blizzard plans WAY WAY ahead.

    And while Saurfang has a good chance of being there to see the deed done, he will have to elbow Vol'jin out of the way to get his shot in first.
    No they don't Haha.

    I remember seeing a blue post saying exactly that. That they came up with the idea for MoP some time during Cataclysm and went with it. Their writing very clearly shows they have no clue which direction to take the game/the characters. Thus the ridiculous dissonance in Garrosh's character. And Thrall being shoe-horned into random stories. And completely ignoring some character's build ups for others.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  3. #83
    Pandaren Monk Of-the-horde's Avatar
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    This guy :P

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dald View Post
    Magatha is more responsible for Cairne's death than Garrosh.
    I'd say they are both equal. It was Garrosh who was aggro enough to want to fight Cairne. And it was Magatha who used the situation to her advantage.
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  5. #85
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Up until I recently I never gave it much thought but I just started a troll druid on my new server to be my gatherer and one of the same quests that I did when I leveled a character when Cata launched now struck a chord.

    In the troll starting zone, Vol'jin shows you an image of a previous conversation with Garrosh, and during their conversation, Vol'jin says the following:
    Image of Vol'jin says: I know exactly what I'll be doin' about it, son of Hellscream. I'll be watchin' as ya people slowly become aware of ya ineptitude. I'll laugh as dey grow ta despise ya as I do. And when tha time comes dat ya failure is complete and ya "power" is meaningless, I will be dere to end ya rule, swiftly and silently. Ya will spend ya reign glancin' over ya shoulda and fearin' tha shadows, for when tha time comes and ya blood be slowly drainin' out, ya will know exactly who fired da arrow dat pierced ya black heart.

    Now the time has come where the Horde as a whole are more and more aware of Garrosh's "ineptitude" and really starting to hate him. The last line of the above statement makes me think Blizzard was foreshadowing Vol'jin getting the final blow on Garrosh.

    Obviously everything right now is speculation but it seems a lot more likely that they'd take a lore figure who is still very active throughout this expansion (particularly after Garrosh has done things like try to have them assassinated), than to bring one back from a previous expansion who hasn't been very active recently.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    I'd say they are both equal. It was Garrosh who was aggro enough to want to fight Cairne. And it was Magatha who used the situation to her advantage.
    I've said this a million times. Cairne deserved it. He wrongfully accused the WARCHIEF of a heinous act. That's grounds for execution. It was a mercy that he was even given a chance to fight for his life.

    Garrosh did absolutely nothing wrong until 5.1. Yes, even Theramore was in the right. The city that was used as a staging ground for invading Horde lands. If you think the Alliance wouldn't wipe out a Horde city spewing military reinforcements and invading Elwynn from half a zone away from two Alliance capitals you've got another thing coming. It just saddened me to know that two-faced bitch Jaina survived the whole ordeal.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-04-22 at 04:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    I'd say they are both equal. It was Garrosh who was aggro enough to want to fight Cairne. And it was Magatha who used the situation to her advantage.
    I thought it was Cairne that started the fight.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    He wasn't a whining kid, he was depressed that Thrall's grandmother was dying and thus he would need to lead. Which is something he didn't trust himself with given the guilt of his father's actions hanging on his shoulders. We are meant to believe that Garrosh was leading just fine when the greatmother was still healthy, she'd give Garrosh orders and he'd follow them out. He'd kick enemy ass just fine, until she got sick. It's just that he was scared of what he might become if he had to make the choices himself. And he was right, because look what he's doing now?

    People shrug off the character development of Garrosh as being too much 180 degrees switching, but I disagree. It makes quite a bit of sense.
    WotLK saw him embracing his father's legacy, after he learned there was also good in his faction's actions. That his father redeemed himself and freed all Orcs of the demonic corruption. So he let go of his fears and embraced his personality. That's why he was such an asshole in WotLK, he didn't back down from anything and would always give his opinion. Just like his father.

    Then we have the pre-Cataclysm event, in which Garrosh once again tells everyone that he doesn't want to become Warchief, that he isn't fit for it and that he'd rather stay commander of the forces. This fits perfectly with his identity in Burning Crusade, he fears he isn't good enough, that he will make the wrong decisions. But Thrall tells him it will be fine, so Garrosh just does his best although he's his father's kid so we know where that leads us. He has potential for greatness, but also potential for horrible things. Just like his father, who was a hothead as well.

    It's not until Mists of Pandaria that his personality seems to get really dark somehow. This is the biggest twist in his character, before he was just a hothead and an aggressive leader (which a lot of Orcs are mind you). Now he suddenly orders assassinations and starts working with experimental weapons. What gives? He must've snapped. But the Sha/Y'Shaarj can explain that. Garrosh did set foot on Pandaria remember? He could've been influenced right as he got off the boat, especially since Pride seems the strongest Sha of all. And that influence is only growing and growing, making his decisions darker and darker. So we'll fight Garrosh, but turns out the Sha/Y'Shaarj possessed/corrupted him, just like his father got corrupted by Mannoroth a second time, but we go and redeem him. He may die in the process, or he may not. I think Blizzard is still keeping their options open on that one, that's what Metzen was talking about when he hinted at Garrosh' future.

    Who knows if there won't be an internal struggle in Garrosh? Even if he does die, I can see him doing something that gets him remembered as a great warrior of the Horde at least. Like Grom. Grom was also an asshole, attacking Alliance even though Thrall told him not to. But Grom compensated by freeing the Orcs in the end. Maybe Garrosh will somehow do something as well? Will he fight back?

    Yeah, I really do hope there is a deeper storyline this time around than simply Blizzard going "yeah corruption is bad, here's your final boss mkay."
    It's all blizzard's fault. Without phasing in BC, with the way people went where the arrow pointed them on quests without knowing what the quests were about, they saw some emo orc crying at a campfire for 2 years.

    Anduin's development has been much better and "unavoidable" thanks to phasing, but some of that is the lack of tech in BC and the rest is just the way the playerbase was expected to consume content (and they didn't).

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    Oh, my apologies.
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  10. #90
    I personally would've really liked to have seen them turn one over on its head and have him brashly go toe-to-toe with Lei Shen and get dunked - then he crawls back to Orgrimmar and injects himself with a high-concentration dose of Y'saarhj (sp)

    But that's just me; I really, really like the Lei Shen character and wish he'd stick around and do other stuff.

    At this point, I think you're all nuts if you think only one person is going to ice Garrosh. Even the Lich King, who had EASILY made more enemies globally than Garrosh did with his actions (and as we saw, many of the representatives of those peoples came to Icecrown to let him have it) AND had a major lore character involved in his boss fight still met his true end at the hands of we the players - Sure, Tirion leapt up and dealt a mighty blow to Frostmourne after we all got nuked; however, he didn't strike Arthas directly and Terenas' spirit only resurrected the players - we are the ones who spend thirty seconds or however long pounding his face in until he croaks. Same with Archimonde, same with Yogg, same with Illidan and Deathwing - there are major characters involved to varying degrees in a lot of fights but the "adventurers" still deliver the killing blow in all of those situations (Deathwing even had the four remaining dragon Aspects fighting and it was still us who literally struck him down, it wasn't a cutscene where we get him to one hit point and then Thrall blasts him with the Dragon Soul - that happened after Spine, which I'll give you was more of an NPC-delivers-the-final-blow moment)

    I'm definitely willing to concede that we'll probably see Heroic Ragnaros-ish lore character involvement since there are so many major characters who have a reason to put Garrosh down; however, I don't think any of them are going to axe him - I don't think it's a bad idea, I wouldn't mind having the plot progress something like this -

    We begin attacking whichever part of Orgrimmar Garrosh is using as his base of operations/strongest sanctum ahead of our NPC heroes
    We progress to the point at which he's vulnerable and we begin battling him without our heroic allies because we're all people he has betrayed or outright pissed off
    At some point, he massively powers up and pulls a Lich King - maybe he incapacitates us or maybe he murders us all (I'm going with the former because the latter has already been done and we don't have a magical dead dad to resurrect us) probably when he's completely out of health - then we get a nice intro-to-the-Forgotten-Depths cut scene and several lore heroes (probably a mix of Alliance/Horde/+Taran Zhu or Chen) waste him in a little battle scene similar to when Arthas lays down the boom on Illidan at the end of WC3's campaign.

    That's how I could see it happening since they've made pretty neat use of cut scenes in this expansion and a combat one would be neat and a way to let both the players see Garrosh to almost the end of his health bar and the lore guys who've been ready to waste him actually get to combine their efforts and bring him down (plus he'd be the first boss to have a really well-animated death since it's not just one unit getting pounded by a bunch of player animations, so he'd maybe be animated to die with Lor'themar's greatsword through his chest or something like that)

    TBH, I wish more of the game's major final bosses would actually be struck down in a cut-scene featuring either lore characters or our own - it would be nice to see a random raid member get all Kratos on the Sha of Fear or Lei Shen/etc.

    Anyway, pipe dreams.
    Last edited by Olrox; 2013-04-22 at 04:19 PM.
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I thought it was Cairne that started the fight.
    This topic was beaten to death 1000 times over. Fanboys will never accept it was cairne fault.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    If that's true send him back to outland where no one has to look at him. He can have another sulk-session and think about what he did.
    Lol, that would actually be kinda funny.

  13. #93
    To get more toward the topic, my vote for who actually gets the KB would be for Vol'jin. As an Alliance player, I honestly don't think anyone on my side has the right to put him down. I could see the cinematic playing out something like this:

    *cut scene begins, Garrosh is laying on the ground in defeat*
    Garrosh: Go on, finish it..
    Jaina: I would be happy to, monster! (come on, she loves calling people monsters)
    Varian (who I don't like, but is probably going to be on the scene in some capacity, let's be honest): ...no. This is a matter for the Horde to decide, not you or I. They were the ones wronged by his decis--
    *bowstring twangs, Garrosh dies. Vol'jin steps out from the shadows*
    Vol'jin: I told ya it would be my arrow dat pierced ya heart. *to Varian* Thank ya mon, for givin' me da openin' dat I needed. But now da "Warchief" is dead, and ya job is finished. It be time for ya all to leave dis city. I promise ya safe passage back to Alliance lands, but dat be all. Don't be thinkin' we friends now, or anyting. Not yet, at least.
    *cutscene ends*

    That's more or less how I'd see it playing out, but hopefully cooler. On a related note, I know it's probably going to end up this way, but I would really prefer if Garrosh not get turned into some sort of sha-possessed/empowered beast. I want Garrosh dead because he is morally a monster. Turning him into a literal one would cheapen things, in my opinion.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by zeppi View Post
    Hi guys, I have a hunch going on that somehow Varok Saurfang will return from Northrend and end Garrosh himself... What gets me thinking of this is that dialogue between Garrosh and Saurfang. Everyone can see this piece of RP going on repeatedly at Borean Tundra:


    Garrosh Hellscream says: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!
    High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies...
    High Overlord Saurfang pauses.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...

    I dont know, but I can see this as a great chance to say that it is a foreshadowing... We might end up with Saurfang as warchief, who knows, what do you guys think of this?
    Saurfang, Vol'jin and Sylvannas have all threaten to kill Garrosh. One of them probably will kill Garrosh in the horde version. In the alliance one i would guess it will be Jaina.

    The Warchief will be Thrall though.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelhiss View Post
    That's more or less how I'd see it playing out, but hopefully cooler. On a related note, I know it's probably going to end up this way, but I would really prefer if Garrosh not get turned into some sort of sha-possessed/empowered beast. I want Garrosh dead because he is morally a monster. Turning him into a literal one would cheapen things, in my opinion.
    While I agree with you wholeheartedly about not wishing to see Garrosh possessed or corrupted by the Sha, I somehow doubt either of us will get to see this come to pass. If anything, the new Scenario lore in 5.3 strongly points to Garrosh acquiring and using Sha/Old God related power. You can't lay claim to the still-living heart of an Old God without it doing at least *something* to your mind if not your body and soul. That being said, I would like Garrosh to die as he is - the whole "corruption" aspect seems to lessen the impact somehow.
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Garrosh is in a similar situation as Arthas was, where there is a long line of characters who want to give the killing blow, but only one can. If Blizzard takes the same path they did in Wrath, then the killing blow will go to a neutral hero.

    In that case, I think it will be Wrathion. He has shown interest in the leadership of both factions, and it is very likely that the final stages of the legendary questline will involve the Siege of Orgrimmar. It also sets the stage for the next expansion, assuming it is indeed Burning Legion.

    If Blizzard doesn't choose a neutral hero, then my picks are Vol'jin, Jaina, or Varian.

    I don't see Saurfang dealing the death blow, but I do hope he is among the attackers for the seige.

    I'd agree that a neutral character would probably be the one to ultimatly land the final blow, but I wouldn't see Wrathion there. Wrathion's story arc ultimatly points more towards the coming threat of the burning legion against azeroth, occasionally looking at the current warfront, and titan history. That all being said, I would see Chen Stormstout as a possibility, he assists the darkspear trolls in the uprising. Another possibility would be Taran Zhu if Garrosh is indeed falling victim to some sort of sha corruption, he would fit with that regarde, but I also doubt him leaving pandaria.

    All things considered my gut tells me Chen will play a strong part in it, he has ties with Thrall, and other key players of the horde, and being that he is already in the area helping the trolls in their rebellion. I think that speaks for itself.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by zeppi View Post
    Hi guys, I have a hunch going on that somehow Varok Saurfang will return from Northrend and end Garrosh himself... What gets me thinking of this is that dialogue between Garrosh and Saurfang. Everyone can see this piece of RP going on repeatedly at Borean Tundra:


    Garrosh Hellscream says: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!
    High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies...
    High Overlord Saurfang pauses.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...

    I dont know, but I can see this as a great chance to say that it is a foreshadowing... We might end up with Saurfang as warchief, who knows, what do you guys think of this?
    Maybe Garrosh already had him "taken care of". That explains why we haven't seen Saurfang.

  18. #98
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Baine Bloodhoof deserves the kill. Garrosh killed his father.

  19. #99
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    Unless Saurfang comes in OUT OF FUCKING NO WHERE after Garrosh is defeated, screaming "YALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA" and impales him with an axe, only to then fly RIGHT BACK OUT, it's unlikely.

    ...Althought that would be awesome.
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawsz View Post
    Wotlk was ages ago, I doubt blizzard planned that far ahead.
    They do. I highly doubt it'll be Saurfang but they do plan ahead a couple of years. Bet you 10 bucks that there are already rough plans for what will come in the next 6-8 years.

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