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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Immortality does not equal pain immunity. That can be exploited in many delightful ways. In fact someone like yours truly could make anduin wish he could die.

    I mean lets be honest, anduin is aiming for me'danesque levels of mary sueness. He is such a bad character he basically kicks your immersion in a nutsack and leave it lying on the ground. Quest where you babysit him in kaarsang is biggest spit in face horde players had to suffer.
    It is possible to kill him permanently, it just requires certain amount of overkill.

    Make sure he is dead, delay any mind controled bystanders that suddenly feel compelled to help him, cut him to pieces, capture his soul, teleport to various places far away from each other, completely obliterate body parts, clean the bloodstains, burn his soul, THE FUCKING END!

    Why torture him, its useless and only gives other puppets chance to save him. If you need to kill something, kill it. If it is unkillable, break its mind, kill his close ones, make his subjects live in poverty while they blame him. THAT is how you should do it.
    Last edited by Verdugo; 2013-04-24 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #262
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    It is possible to kill him permanently, it just requires certain amount of overkill.

    Make sure he is dead, delay any mind controled bystanders that suddenly feel compelled to help him, cut him to pieces, capture his soul, teleport to various places far away from each other, completely obliterate body parts, clean the bloodstains, burn his soul, THE FUCKING END!

    Why torture him, its useless and only gives other puppets chance to save him. If you need to kill something, kill it. If it is unkillable, break its mind, kill his close ones, make his subjects live in poverty while they blame him. THAT is how you should do it.
    Slaanesh demands it !!!
    OT: You are right just use exterminatus and be done. (tho im kinda afraid that similar to orkz anduin may be in fact funganoid and release spores when killed - approach with caution)

  3. #263
    Herald of the Titans Desaris's Avatar
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    Kil'jaeden was able to find Ner'zhul's soul in the Twisting Nether to make him into the lich king

    They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle. Your gods are not your gods, outsider.

  4. #264
    I just hope they make amends for the WotlK ending fight. I mean, there were so many people wanting Arthas and they ended up with Tyrion, and on top of that he barely did anything. The BC ending fight with Illidan for example was pretty epic having both Akama and Maiev.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethorian View Post
    I just hope they make amends for the WotlK ending fight. I mean, there were so many people wanting Arthas and they ended up with Tyrion, and on top of that he barely did anything. The BC ending fight with Illidan for example was pretty epic having both Akama and Maiev.
    I actually thought the Lich King fight and Tirion's involvement in it was pretty epic. I guess I figured ahead of time that the player raid wouldn't be able to destroy Frostmourne directly, or even outright defeat the Lich King without some assistance. So when Tirion got ice-blocked right at the start I was kind of taken aback and left wondering who or what was going to intervene. And then Tirion breaks out during the ending cinematic, delivers the coup de grâce to Frostmourne itself, and none other than Terenas emerges from the shards to resurrect the raid and we lay the final smackdown on Arthas.

    Guess everyone's mileage varies.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
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     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I actually thought the Lich King fight and Tirion's involvement in it was pretty epic. I guess I figured ahead of time that the player raid wouldn't be able to destroy Frostmourne directly, or even outright defeat the Lich King without some assistance. So when Tirion got ice-blocked right at the start I was kind of taken aback and left wondering who or what was going to intervene. And then Tirion breaks out during the ending cinematic, delivers the coup de grâce to Frostmourne itself, and none other than Terenas emerges from the shards to resurrect the raid and we lay the final smackdown on Arthas.

    Guess everyone's mileage varies.
    There's a difference between the LK fight and every other npc aided fight.

    Illidan? Maiev and Akama help us out, but don't do all the work for us.

    Yogg? We get buffs and aid from the watchers, but it's us actually fighting him.

    Rag 2.0 heroic? We get help in last phase, but the npcs don't steal the glory?

    Deathwing? Sure, Thrall gets the last shot in, but we bought the time needed for it to work at least.

    But LK? LK toys with us. When we prove we're good enough to be his champions, he 1 shots us and shows he wasn't just gloating all expansion. He really COULD kill us at any time. EVERYTHING WE DID up until then was useless. Meaningless. The entire fight was a test and then we're killed. Then Tirion does the first meaningful thing all fight, goes super saijyan and and shatters frostmourne, and the spirits leave the LK helpless. Oh, look. We're not needed here either. Tirion can kill the LK on his own now. The problem with the LK fight is that the players are superfluous. You could try and argue that without us being dead and about to be raised, Tirion wouldn't have had the same motivation to do that last prayer or something, but that's it. We MIGHT have been temporary martyrs to inspire Tirion.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    There's a difference between the LK fight and every other npc aided fight.

    Illidan? Maiev and Akama help us out, but don't do all the work for us.

    Yogg? We get buffs and aid from the watchers, but it's us actually fighting him.

    Rag 2.0 heroic? We get help in last phase, but the npcs don't steal the glory?

    Deathwing? Sure, Thrall gets the last shot in, but we bought the time needed for it to work at least.

    But LK? LK toys with us. When we prove we're good enough to be his champions, he 1 shots us and shows he wasn't just gloating all expansion. He really COULD kill us at any time. EVERYTHING WE DID up until then was useless. Meaningless. The entire fight was a test and then we're killed. Then Tirion does the first meaningful thing all fight, goes super saijyan and and shatters frostmourne, and the spirits leave the LK helpless. Oh, look. We're not needed here either. Tirion can kill the LK on his own now. The problem with the LK fight is that the players are superfluous. You could try and argue that without us being dead and about to be raised, Tirion wouldn't have had the same motivation to do that last prayer or something, but that's it. We MIGHT have been temporary martyrs to inspire Tirion.
    Is he really a hero if he needs us to get killed so that he can do something?

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    But LK? LK toys with us. When we prove we're good enough to be his champions, he 1 shots us and shows he wasn't just gloating all expansion. He really COULD kill us at any time. EVERYTHING WE DID up until then was useless. Meaningless. The entire fight was a test and then we're killed. Then Tirion does the first meaningful thing all fight, goes super saijyan and and shatters frostmourne, and the spirits leave the LK helpless. Oh, look. We're not needed here either. Tirion can kill the LK on his own now. The problem with the LK fight is that the players are superfluous. You could try and argue that without us being dead and about to be raised, Tirion wouldn't have had the same motivation to do that last prayer or something, but that's it. We MIGHT have been temporary martyrs to inspire Tirion.
    I actually think that's the real beauty of the fight, though. The Lich King was such a huge character, such an integral part of the Warcraft franchise up to that point, that for a small army of players to saunter into his personal citadel and lay waste to him seemed almost tantamount to blasphemy (my opinion, of course). We knew at the outset we'd need access to a greater force than we had at out disposal, a force given form in Ashbringer and the Light itself. I didn't feel as if Tirion himself could have killed the Lich King in single combat... he might've made a mighty effort, but I think that one-on-one the Lich King would've defeated him. Ultimately it took a direct action of the Light (freeing Tirion from his imprisonment and presumably empowering Ashbringer further) to achieve victory... and to do that it required the players to stymy the Lich King until that empowerment could come to pass.

    I never felt as if Tirion robbed of my victory over the Lich King, nor did I feel as if Tirion landing the decisive blow cheapened the fight. Of course, everyone's got the right to interpret things their own way, and how I felt doesn't intersect with your own experiences.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
     l、 ~ヽ
     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by pawsz View Post
    Wotlk was ages ago, I doubt blizzard planned that far ahead.
    They have story stuff planned far far in advance. Right now they're probably working on the next expansion and have story for the one after that.

  10. #270
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    I always felt like Blizzard was kind of boned when designing bosses like the Lich King or Deathwing. I knew as soon as Deathwing was a boss, his shear size would make a fight similar to Ony kind of absurd. So when they make this epic fight, where you land on his back to destroy his armor, then fight his corrupted, destroyed body on the next fight..... people will complain.

    So, LK has a fight where we "aren't needed" and people still complain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I actually think that's the real beauty of the fight, though. The Lich King was such a huge character, such an integral part of the Warcraft franchise up to that point, that for a small army of players to saunter into his personal citadel and lay waste to him seemed almost tantamount to blasphemy (my opinion, of course). We knew at the outset we'd need access to a greater force than we had at out disposal, a force given form in Ashbringer and the Light itself. I didn't feel as if Tirion himself could have killed the Lich King in single combat... he might've made a mighty effort, but I think that one-on-one the Lich King would've defeated him. Ultimately it took a direct action of the Light (freeing Tirion from his imprisonment and presumably empowering Ashbringer further) to achieve victory... and to do that it required the players to stymy the Lich King until that empowerment could come to pass.

    I never felt as if Tirion robbed of my victory over the Lich King, nor did I feel as if Tirion landing the decisive blow cheapened the fight. Of course, everyone's got the right to interpret things their own way, and how I felt doesn't intersect with your own experiences.
    Here's the thing though. It's not that Tirion landed a decisive blow and turned the flow of the fight. It's that EVERYTHING we did in the fight up to that point didn't matter. LK effortlessly 1 shots us and reveals he was toying with us the whole time. It's not that we couldn't have beaten him without Tirion that bugs me. It's that we really played no significant role in the fight at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I always felt like Blizzard was kind of boned when designing bosses like the Lich King or Deathwing. I knew as soon as Deathwing was a boss, his shear size would make a fight similar to Ony kind of absurd. So when they make this epic fight, where you land on his back to destroy his armor, then fight his corrupted, destroyed body on the next fight..... people will complain.

    So, LK has a fight where we "aren't needed" and people still complain.
    imo, the Madness of Deathwing fight was the most epic raid fight ever....in concept. But something about the fight itelf was just kind of...'eh.' We were fighting countless ads and limbs that didn't even move, that might have been part of it. The idea for the fight and the visuals were epic, but the fight in and of itself just came across as...underwhelming and I can't quite put my finger on why. And for me, having Thrall do the finishing blow with the dragon soul wasn't it. It had to do with the fight mechanics.

  12. #272
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    I didn't really like the platform mechanic. But I loved the overall design. it was pretty great parachuting on his back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Here's the thing though. It's not that Tirion landed a decisive blow and turned the flow of the fight. It's that EVERYTHING we did in the fight up to that point didn't matter. LK effortlessly 1 shots us and reveals he was toying with us the whole time. It's not that we couldn't have beaten him without Tirion that bugs me. It's that we really played no significant role in the fight at all.
    But do we really NEED to be Significant all the time? Do we really need to get all the praise for killing a boss? It was one fight like that, and I agree that there was essence of beauty in it. It was very unexpected that at the moment where everybody thought he would be going down, he one shots everyone, It was very shocking to me at the first time. And I think that this move has proven that Lich Kind is one decent Lore character who received ending he deserved. That till the end he was really powerful, and he was not downed by some minor figure. I consider this to be a very good manoeuvre.

    imo, the Madness of Deathwing fight was the most epic raid fight ever....in concept. But something about the fight itelf was just kind of...'eh.' We were fighting countless ads and limbs that didn't even move, that might have been part of it. The idea for the fight and the visuals were epic, but the fight in and of itself just came across as...underwhelming and I can't quite put my finger on why. And for me, having Thrall do the finishing blow with the dragon soul wasn't it. It had to do with the fight mechanics.
    I have the same thoughts. The concept was very interesting I actually liked the ending part of the raid, but something wrong went up with it.
    Last edited by Ramz; 2013-04-24 at 11:45 PM.

  14. #274
    [QUOTE=Ramz;20930445]
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Here's the thing though. It's not that Tirion landed a decisive blow and turned the flow of the fight. It's that EVERYTHING we did in the fight up to that point didn't matter. LK effortlessly 1 shots us and reveals he was toying with us the whole time. It's not that we couldn't have beaten him without Tirion that bugs me. It's that we really played no significant role in the fight at all.[COLOR="red"]

    But do we really NEED to be Significant all the time? Do we really need to get all the praise for killing a boss? It was one fight like that, and I agree that there was essence of beauty in it. It was very unexpected that at the moment where everybody thought he would be going down, he one shots everyone, It was very shocking to me at the first time. And I think that this move has proven that Lich Kind is one decent Lore character who received ending he deserved. That till the end he was really powerful, and he was not downed by some minor figure. I consider this to be a very good manoeuvre.



    I have the same thoughts. The concept was very interesting I actually liked the ending part of the raid, but something wrong went up with it.
    When the final boss of an expansion pack renders player involvmeent in it meaningless from a story perspective, I see that as a problem. Now I don't mind the fact that Tirion had his little burst of power and broke Frostmourne. But I would have preferred it be done in a way where we still played a meaningful role, like in Madness of Deathwing.

  15. #275
    There are a lot of people FAR more deserving of killing Garrosh.

    Jaina, Thrall, Vereesa, Vol'jin, Baine off the top of my head.

  16. #276
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    I don't think Tirion alone could have killed the Lich King.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  17. #277
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    There are a lot of people FAR more deserving of killing Garrosh.

    Jaina, Thrall, Vereesa, Vol'jin, Baine off the top of my head.
    How about greatest plot twist ever ? Garrosh kills them all. Noone would see that one coming.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    You are getting soft i see. Anduin for all the crimes he commited against good writing deserves to be dismembered, skinned alive and then drowned in salted lemon-juice. Oh and add the fact that his unyelding faith in "holy" light prevents him from dying. Sucks for him i guess.
    i think anduins writing is quite good, hes slowly gone from a kid who thinks peace is above everything to understanding that sometimes you need to fight to bring peace while also trying to get out of the shadow of his father and be his own man.

    plus hes friends with wrathion and who doesnt love some johnny quest

    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    How about greatest plot twist ever ? Garrosh kills them all. Noone would see that one coming.
    Maybe he'll just give a big speech from this throne then he'll stand up to start the fight but slip on those steps. He'll tumble down, drop his axe like always, and land face first on it. Loot then falls out of his pockets. Everyone walks home in awkward silence. The End.
    Last edited by leaks; 2013-04-25 at 12:07 AM.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't think Tirion alone could have killed the Lich King.
    Tiron alone? No. Tirion + all the unleashed souls from Frostmourne after he shattered it? Yes. And I love the idea of those souls taking their vengeance after being freed, but from a story perspective the player characters didn't contribute anything except getting killed, which was annoying.

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