How does "Socialized Healthcare" Compare to "Privatized Healthcare"?

[Cybran]

Turns out i was wrong. You pay 10 euro if you are unemployed. If you are employed you pay 3.2% of your salary and you boss pays 4.8% of you salary. So around 70 euro a month for basically minimal coverage.

[Laize]

newsflash: it isn't working. the mandate has only brought prices up. Everyone I work with says their healthcare costs have gone up at least 20%. They are paying more for the same or less coverage.

Newsflash: The mandate isn't in effect yet.

[imabanana]

Recently talked with someone who had to wonder whether she'd pay over $3k for an MRI... to be sure her child was safe after an accident, since her pediatrician wasn't really sure. Felt strange coming from a country where this costs between 0€ and 50€ depending on your income, and is accessible to anyone (even homeless with no income may get one if needed).

US healthcare is profit-driven, which leads to this : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...res-in-the-us/ (this is the overall price of procedures, not final cost for people, most of these ends up free for patient under France healthcare for example). And that's most likely the worse thing about it.

[Laize]

Recently talked with someone who had to wonder whether she'd pay over $3k for an MRI... to be sure her child was safe after an accident, since her pediatrician wasn't really sure. Felt strange coming from a country where this costs between 0€ and 50€ depending on your income, and is accessible to anyone (even homeless with no income may get one if needed).

US healthcare is profit-driven, which leads to this : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...res-in-the-us/ (this is the overall price of procedures, not final cost for people, most of these ends up free for patient under France healthcare for example). And that's most likely the worse thing about it.

The cost of medical procedures in the US is ridiculous, no one will contest that. However, you can find horror stories from any health care system in the world. One thing I know can happen in some countries (Norway I know does this) with single-payer care is being assigned to healthcare facilities for procedures (such as birthing) that may be quite inconvenient.

[Deleted]

In France, almost everything concerning healthcare is free, blood tests, x ray scan and all thoses things are free, hospitals are free, health insurance are paid by the state and everyone can have one, visits to the doctor, gynecologist etc ... are not free, but they're later on refunded by this health insurance.

There is two types of doctors, divided on two category

Category one : They have a fix price of 25€ (which is about 18$) which is refunded by health insurance.

Category two : They can chose the price they want, most of them are more expensive than the first category, but, if you are poor, they can also make it cheaper, or entirely free. BUT the health insurance only refund less than 9% of the price.

Even if some doctors of the first category will still accept not to get paid if you can't.

Also, if you can't work for health reasons, well you'll still get paid

If you are poor, and you can't live decently, the state will give you a little ammount of money, so you can have a home, eat and drink.
The state will also give you ia little ammount of money if you are handicaped, to help you in your life, all the healings associated to the handicap are free. Same thing for old peoples.

If you get injured while working, and cause of working (While working, or while going to your job) well the state (with some of the concerned enterprise's money) gives you a little something too and all the healings are paid, if you can't work anymore, you'll get paid monthly by the state and you'll get indemnity from the enterprise where you were working.

When you get too old to work, you still get paid, the ammount depends from how many time you worked in your previous life.

There is tons of other thing but it would be too long to talk about this. I would conclude that everything that is necessary is free and that you can survive and keep a good health whatever happens.

At final, yes, everyone pays for it, you may pay for other peoples, but the ammount of money is ridiculous.

[imabanana]

When you get too old to work, you still get paid, the ammount depends from how many time you worked in your previous life.

Translation : the amount depends on how long you worked in your life, and how much you gained there (which indirectly defines how much you gave to pension funds)

[Maneo]

I have no problem with socialized medicine in theory. The military is already under that program pretty much with Tricare.

Tricare and the VA medical centers are fantastic for your preventive care and scheduled appointments and everything is free.

The problem arises when you need something outside of those. My wife recently was having back pain. Called to make a appointment and it was over a month and a half out. Where as when calling a civilian doctor got a appt within 24 hours. Ended up taking my wife to the ER even though it wasn't a emergency to avoid the cost.

That is what worries me about socialized healthcare. Appointments being made months out and the only recourse being the ER.

[Masark]

I have no problem with socialized medicine in theory. The military is already under that program pretty much with Tricare.

Tricare and the VA medical centers are fantastic for your preventive care and scheduled appointments and everything is free.

The problem arises when you need something outside of those. My wife recently was having back pain. Called to make a appointment and it was over a month and a half out. Where as when calling a civilian doctor got a appt within 24 hours. Ended up taking my wife to the ER even though it wasn't a emergency to avoid the cost.

That is what worries me about socialized healthcare. Appointments being made months out and the only recourse being the ER.

This is not a problem with socialized healthcare.

This is a problem with programs designed in a schizophrenic manner due to "compromises" with the "SOCIALISM BAD!" collection.

[Laize]

This is not a problem with socialized healthcare.

This is a problem with programs designed in a schizophrenic manner due to "compromises" with the "SOCIALISM BAD!" collection.

Heaven forbid anyone compromise in Congress. It's not like that mentality leads to government inaction, brinkmanship, sequestration or anything bad.

[Grizzly Willy]

Heaven forbid anyone compromise in Congress. It's not like that mentality leads to government inaction, brinkmanship, sequestration or anything bad.

Or, maybe, just maybe, if our congresspersons acted like they actually had a brain.

[Algearond]

Asked this within another thread and only got a few responses, so I thought I'd start a new thread to make it the focus.

So I am curious, and since the subject a hot topic on these forums as of late, I have no reason not to ask it here.

In the countries that have socialized state run healthcare, how much do you pay for things like prescriptions? Lab work? Hospital stays? ER visits?

The average US for these (generally) with health insurance:

Prescriptions: $10 - $30 (Generic to Name Brand, if covered) or up to THOUSANDS of dollars (if not covered)

Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) $30 - $50

Hospital stays: 10% - 50%

ER visits: $50 - $100 + 20% - 50% of the cost of procedures

What's it like in other countries where healthcare is socialized?

I think both healthcare systems are flawed, both have their benefits. Private healthcare has much quicker response time, and usually better access to cutting edge solutions, however, it can get prohibitively expensive and people can be priced out due to complete crap like "Pre-existing conditions"

Socalised medicine has the advantage of ensuring people get the care they need.........but not necessarily when they need it, you may be waiting far longer then you should or can even afford to health-wise. You also lack the choice of private insurance, and access to the latest cutting edge treatment.

Personally, I am equally against both the insurance companies and the government attempting to take over our healthcare system.

[Vorondil]

In belgium we pay 2 types of taxes, a flat amount that goes to the "social fund" (flat amount of 13,39% on either 100% or 108% of what we earn) and then an amount that increases the more we earn (in scales) with a maximum of 50%.
This money goes to different funds
-> funds that pay out retired people
-> funds that pay out sick people who can't work
-> funds that pay for medical bills
-> ..

However everyone has to get an extra (_payable_) medical insurance, i actually believe the amount we have to pay for this on a yearly base only - barely - covers the administration costs of having to handle our files and not meant to actually cover the medical costs.
A visit to the dentist costs us 50-200e initially, but we get a 80-90% cashback afterwards. basicly making it cost (5-30 euro)
having a surgery at old age for pacemaker fe.: would cost us 25000 euro without medical insurance, I believe this only costs like 1000 euro and there also is some sort of maximum bill that puts a top limit on how much you have to pay for medical stuff per year. so basicly it might be that a surgery would be entirely free, however the cost of being in the hospital might still be billed, but these aren't insanely high if you agree to be in rooms with more than 1 person per room.

[Masark]

Heaven forbid anyone compromise in Congress. It's not like that mentality leads to government inaction, brinkmanship, sequestration or anything bad.

I want to cut off your arms and legs.
You don't want me to cut off your arms and legs.

Let's compromise and I'll only cut off one arm and one leg.

[Redblade]

Socalised medicine has the advantage of ensuring people get the care they need.........but not necessarily when they need it, you may be waiting far longer then you should or can even afford to health-wise.

Think we see a couple of cases a year where people didn't get the care they needed in time, as far as I'm aware it has been due to other circumstances than us having socialized health care though. And in a country with only 9 million people things like that tend to get blown up in media...

You also lack the choice of private insurance, and access to the latest cutting edge treatment.

Actually you don't, I'm quite sure there are insurance companies that will provide you with extra insurance if you so desire. Highly doubt you miss out on any cutting edge treatment either unless it's on a human trial stage and as such unavailable in the country.

[petej0]

The problem with health care in the US is the prices hospitals charge. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...136864,00.html

[Laize]

I want to cut off your arms and legs.
You don't want me to cut off your arms and legs.

Let's compromise and I'll only cut off one arm and one leg.

Yes, that's a fair comparison. Let's go with that.

Come on... this type of debate tactic should have been weeded out in 8th grade.

[Masark]

Yes, that's a fair comparison. Let's go with that.

Come on... this type of debate tactic should have been weeded out in 8th grade.

It's the only analogy I could come up with that adequately portrays the utter non-functionality of the result of said compromise.

[Laize]

It's the only analogy I could come up with that adequately portrays the utter non-functionality of the result of said compromise.

The result the compromise brought isn't even in place yet. How can you possibly claim it's non-functional?

[Fugus]

Yes, that's a fair comparison. Let's go with that.

Come on... this type of debate tactic should have been weeded out in 8th grade.

I think his point comes from the fact that this is something that shouldn't even be a compromise.

We have the rest of the world to use an example with multiple flavors of healthcare and ours is an abject failure in every metric except the metric of making a select few lots of money.

If this was something that was actually up to rational debate, you might have a point.
But I see his sarcastic remark more a jab at the fact that there shouldn't have to be a compromise at what should be basic knowledge to anyone who actually is in politics just by looking around.

[Masark]

The result the compromise brought isn't even in place yet. How can you possibly claim it's non-functional?

I think we're having two different conversations here. We're not talking about obamacare. I was replying to post #247, who was complaining about the brokenness of military health system and erroneously expanding that as an inherent problem of all socialized healthcare systems.