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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    One thing I know can happen in some countries (Norway I know does this) with single-payer care is being assigned to healthcare facilities for procedures (such as birthing) that may be quite inconvenient.
    The person doing the assigning is normally the patient himself, online. If he wants. His choices often include private clinics, if they can offer the service at a competitive cost. Of course, it can be more inconvenient for birth if you chose to live in a very remote and sparsly populated place. But in general, you should not base your opinions on Norways system on "Lilyhammer" any more than you should base your opinions on the US on "Married with children"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    That is what worries me about socialized healthcare. Appointments being made months out and the only recourse being the ER.
    Well, the issue with single payer (there is no such thing as "socialized health care" outside of american opinions. Its like the Swedish lesbian town.) is a bit more complicated than that. Through the system, decisions are made by doctors on medical grounds rather than bureaucrats basing it on on whats profitable. So access is set by triage. The more serious your condition is, the faster you are served. So you trade faster service for serious things for slower service for minor ailments. And the papers write about the conditions in between. Minor ailments always outnumber serious conditions too.

    Beyond that, most single payer countries do not compare badly to the US in terms of overall waiting times. Canada, which is where a lot of Americans get their impressions, is an unusually poor performer in this area. Of course the US stats are distorted by the people who struggle for any access beyond the emergency room.

    In general, the prevailing opinion in Public Health is that when you look at access in general, which includes both waiting lists, people with no access at all, and people who hold off seeing the doctor for financial reasons, the UHC systems are the more effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    I think both healthcare systems are flawed, both have their benefits. Private healthcare has much quicker response time, and usually better access to cutting edge solutions, however, it can get prohibitively expensive and people can be priced out due to complete crap like "Pre-existing conditions"

    Socalised medicine has the advantage of ensuring people get the care they need.........but not necessarily when they need it, you may be waiting far longer then you should or can even afford to health-wise. You also lack the choice of private insurance, and access to the latest cutting edge treatment.

    Personally, I am equally against both the insurance companies and the government attempting to take over our healthcare system.
    Government taking over healthcare is another Swedish Lesbian Town. Also, its not neccessarily true that you'll lack for the most cutting edge solutions. Single payer healthcare have an enormous bargaining power, and in some cases just buy treatment where the best treatment can be found. It can be cheaper than to maintain specialist skills for rare conditions for smaller countries.

    Overall, the US does well in the "cutting edge" stakes, but the US system is open to anyone who can pay.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I think his point comes from the fact that this is something that shouldn't even be a compromise.

    We have the rest of the world to use an example with multiple flavors of healthcare and ours is an abject failure in every metric except the metric of making a select few lots of money.
    Pretty sure the ACA just gave us Switzerland's health care and, as such, there's no reason to really gripe about it anymore. Just wait for it to finish phasing in.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 07:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Retailer View Post
    Government taking over healthcare is another Swedish Lesbian Town. Also, its not neccessarily true that you'll lack for the most cutting edge solutions. Single payer healthcare have an enormous bargaining power, and in some cases just buy treatment where the best treatment can be found. It can be cheaper than to maintain specialist skills for rare conditions for smaller countries.

    Overall, the US does well in the "cutting edge" stakes, but the US system is open to anyone who can pay.
    The thing about the system being "open to anyone who can pay" is, itself, flawed. There is plenty of recourse for health care in the US for the uninsured. I've been through it.

    Yes, you can get your $800,000 treatment covered by a combination of charity care (Which all hospitals in the US have) and medicaid/medicare (Which you are most likely eligible for if you have a life/employment threatening illness or condition). It is an absolute bureaucratic nightmare, however. When I came down with lymphoma in the early/mid 2000s I had to fill out reams of paperwork for medicare, medicaid and charity care. I had to provide several copies of my diagnosis, diagnostic imagery, bank statements (They want to verify that you're poor) and then got declined for medicare/medicaid anyway. Had to go to the appeals board and speak to a panel of doctors and provide them with a more detailed copy of my oncologist's professional diagnosis.

    After about 6 weeks of this I was cleared. It took almost a year in total (and a renewal which was as nightmarish as the initial application) but the net cost to me of my $850,000 in treatment (Which included chemo, radiation, a hospital stay for a biopsy, immune boosters and another hospital stay for kidney stone treatment and renal failure) was $0.00. They even paid for private insurance for me until I got my own.

    So we have a system that works... It's just a Rube Goldberg machine.
    Last edited by Laize; 2013-04-24 at 07:17 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    The problem with health care in the US is the prices hospitals charge. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...136864,00.html
    I wish that full article was still up for people to check out. It is really informative on why the United States healthcare system costs so much. He even offers some ideas to fix the problem at the end of it that make a lot of sense to me. It's too bad though that we probably won't see any of the fixes anytime soon.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Annapolis View Post
    I wish that full article was still up for people to check out. It is really informative on why the United States healthcare system costs so much. He even offers some ideas to fix the problem at the end of it that make a lot of sense to me. It's too bad though that we probably won't see any of the fixes anytime soon.
    There is a reason why this is only in print and not in the news cycle. Politicians do not want to touch this topic. Much like the rising cost of college tuition our politicians would rather make laws and regulations that pass the cost off to someone else instead of pulling these people into congressional hearings to explain why costs are so high.

  5. #265
    Estonia here.

    Prescriptions: Depending on the cost of it, it may be 5-100 ... or free. We have something called "discount prescription". It costs 1.20 eur (prescription itself) which then gives 50-100% discount. Again, depending on the medicine, for example I had prescription for Copaxone which costs about 1000eur for 28 day supply, I got it for free. Now I'm on Avonex and I get that for free, too. If it's for serious medical condition, you get it for free (provided you have health insurance, which you will automatically if you work or if you are signed as a jobseeker).

    Lab work - nothing. You may have to wait to get to an appoinment, OR you can buy them yourselves out of queue in which case they're probably around 20 eur.
    Hospital stays - up to 10 euros, regardless of stay length, but provided it's for a medical necessity.
    ER visit - nothing.


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