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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    lets compare health care by using a scale between one and ten with Privatized Healthcare some people will have a 10 and some will have a 1 and all the numbers in between depends on the resorses of the individual. with Socialized Healthcare every one will have the same and by the nature of the beast it will never be a 10 and no mater what you do to improve you economic resources you health care will not improve
    I can go to a world class private clinic if I want to, it will cost me more though. So you are wrong there my friend.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  2. #42
    Prescriptions: very cheap, like £5 mostly, i think free in Scotland though

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) Free

    Hospital stays: Free

    ER visits: Free

    dentist stuff is free until you are 18, after that its very cheap anyway. i got every 6months for checkup and its something like £12, you can get most of the treatments free or very cheap, but there may be a wait, some people chose to just pay a bit extra here and go private, i know when my sister was having something done to her teeth a while back, not really sure what it was, but on the nhs its was a 3month wait, but only like £10, instead she payed £200 to get it next week.
    no idea for hearing/vision, never been.
    Too cool for a signature

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseven View Post
    Not a big Affordable Health Care person myself. I wanted the single-payer system that Obama originally wanted. This insurance thing we got instead is the compromise with Republicans (it being the Heritage Foundation plan that Romney went with with Mass). The single-payer "socialized" system went out the window when people started freaking out about "death panels". (Like insurance companies aren't death panels all on their own.)
    I too am not a major fan of the hand-job given to the insurance companies in "obama care". However, I have a close friend with a pre-existing condition who had their monthly costs go from around 10,000 dollars to nothing (was able to get onto employers insurance) under it's provisions. So I can't really say its a bad thing over all.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  4. #44
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    If someone hasn't seen it yet, I suggest to watch the movie John Q with Denzel Washington. It's a great movie, great acting and awesome storyline.
    And it is very realistic in regards of the USA's health care system. Cases like the one in the movie happened (and still do today) thousands of times in the USA.
    Here the trailer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Ej9Z4x2qs
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    I made a thread a while back about what my taxes pay for, I like to keep track of it to some degree.
    It will be different for other countries of course. The largest chunk goes towards my retirement, but apart from that it's health care and elderly care... or care for disabled people.
    Thanks for the list

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    We have all of those but healthcare and our taxes are much lower. Nobody starves in the US. I assume healthcare costs the most out of those services? What are the percentages?
    You're also kind of missing the point.

    Quoting from the World Health Organization:

    "The goal of universal health coverage is to ensure that all people obtain the health services they need without suffering financial hardship when paying for them."

    In other words, the purpose of universal health care is to disconnect your health care from how you pay for it. It is to smooth out the cash flows so you don't get one massive bullet payment requirement that bankrupts or even kills you, but instead you pay over your lifetime. It is like how companies hedge and smooth out their cash flows and inventories, so that one event or order does not cause critical issues.

    A very nice side-effect of a universal health care system, is that all services for such coverage have to be planned by the state. So, the state gains an enormous bargaining power with medical providers. This means that it can negotiate the lowest possible prices, often at flate rates, with these providers. Therefore, your taxpayer money gets used much more efficiently than it would otherwise be. A collective bargaining power, if you will.

    It just works.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Empirical evidence gathered by many global groups and think tanks show this is not the case at all. Socialized medicine has better outcomes and IS CHEAPER.

    Better outcomes? Does this mean better coverage or quality? There's a distinction. US quality is top notch and highly specialized.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Better outcomes? Does this mean better coverage or quality? There's a distinction. US quality is top notch and highly specialized**.
    ** If you can afford it.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseven View Post
    Not a big Affordable Health Care person myself. I wanted the single-payer system that Obama originally wanted. This insurance thing we got instead is the compromise with Republicans (it being the Heritage Foundation plan that Romney went with with Mass). The single-payer "socialized" system went out the window when people started freaking out about "death panels". (Like insurance companies aren't death panels all on their own.)
    I'd prefer a market oriented approach that isn't replete with lobbyist meddling and bureaucracy but I would take socialist healthcare over Obamacare any day of the week

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Better outcomes? Does this mean better coverage or quality? There's a distinction. US quality is top notch and highly specialized.
    Not according to the world health organization.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_H...health_systems

    We're 38th for quality and 1st for cost.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    ** If you can afford it.
    Sure, but don't act like most people can't.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    I can go to a world class private clinic if I want to, it will cost me more though. So you are wrong there my friend.
    then you don't have a true socialized medicine you have some elements of privatized medicine

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Sure, but don't act like most people can't.
    Does medical bankruptcy mean anything to you?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Sure, but don't act like most people can't.
    Most probably can. Which is why it's easy for "the most" to ignore those who cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    then you don't have a true socialized medicine you have some elements of privatized medicine
    The point is if you need care, you can get it without any out of pocket expenses regardless of your income or situation.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    We have all of those but healthcare and our taxes are much lower. Nobody starves in the US. I assume healthcare costs the most out of those services? What are the percentages?
    The only reason your taxes are lower is because you've been running on debt. In terms of GDP, your government spending (all levels combined) about the same as in Canada, at 40-ish percent.
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  16. #56
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    I can go to a world class private clinic if I want to, it will cost me more though. So you are wrong there my friend.
    Yup, correct.. If one thinks the standard insurance isn't enough and they want a luxury treatment, one has two options:
    Pay for the extras on a case by case basis, or purchase an additional insurance for such cases. All not a problem at all.
    Generally though, and at least for Germany ( I think I must know with a total of 9 surgeries over 22 years time span) the treatment as regular patient is exactly the same as the one for the luxury guys, on medical aspects. They only have more convenience as in having a 1 bed room with a TV and a phone in there. Almost like a hotel room. And for the daily doctors visit the professor shows up instead of the stations leading doc. The professor will see the normal patients too, but only once a week. And that is no big deal at all. I don't really care whom I talk to every day for my progress report.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Not according to the world health organization.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_H...health_systems

    We're 38th for quality and 1st for cost.
    That chart is shaky as hell and is outdated. It also doesn't make much sense.

    I trust OECD numbers more since they are more precise and you can look at every aspect

    http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    I too am not a major fan of the hand-job given to the insurance companies in "obama care". However, I have a close friend with a pre-existing condition who had their monthly costs go from around 10,000 dollars to nothing (was able to get onto employers insurance) under it's provisions. So I can't really say its a bad thing over all.
    No, I agree. It's better than nothing, just not as good as it could have been. Glad to hear about your friend. I'm glad they closed the doughnut hole so the elderly can afford their meds, and that college students can stay on their parents policy too.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Sure, but don't act like most people can't.
    I think the last census figure (pre Obama Care) had 13.8% of Americans uninsured. Which isn't "most" but is in my opinion too high. What's more, insurance often does not cover preventative care. Which is just silly in since that would seem to cost the insurance companies less then only treating emergencies.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendia View Post
    snip
    I cannot speak for other countries but germany (since I am currently insured there).

    If you are under a certain number of yearly income you HAVE to pay 8% of your monthly income (your employer has to pay another 7%) to the health insurance. Children are automatically insured over their parents. Unemplyed people are automatically insured.

    If you are over that number (it should be around 50k USD before tax I think) you can choose to instead pay for private healthcare.

    Now how do these work:
    - Everything that is necessary to the person is free. And everything does mean everything. Doesn't matter if it costs millions.
    (The 'resources' usually limit this. Can only transplant as many organs as are available.)

    - If there are 2 methods available that are deemed (by the insurace company) to be equal only the cheaper one is provided.
    (A good example are dental fillings. The insurance only pays for amalgam fillings. If you want plastic or gold fillings you have to pay the difference by yourself.)

    - Certain procedures that are deemed unnecessary (by the insurance company) are not covered at all (breast impalnts or liposuction for example).
    (Just to point something out here. Plastic surgery can be covered if you are a burn victim for example as it then is deemed necessary.)

    Private insurance (in germany) work like normal companies anywhere else. However as stated before that is only available as option if you earn enough. Switching between private and general health care is relatively unproblematic.

    As an addendum:
    - There was a system in place where every visit to a doctor that was not officially suggested by another doctor did cost you 10€ (per 3 months). This (to my knowledge) has been abolished again.
    - There may be a small fee you have to pay for medications I'm not sure about that. Something like asprin is most likely not convered unless you can prove that you have a condition that requires it.
    Last edited by gend; 2013-04-22 at 04:29 PM.

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