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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Considering that's a really shit argument as regards healthcare, it speaks to the quality of the lesser arguments.
    That's your opinion. It's clear you think it's your right to have me finance your life.

    While I agree there are problems with the US system, they don't lie in the fact that healthcare is privatized, but the cost to the individual. People who smoke, eat McDonald's every day etc etc should pay more for their health insurance than others... the problem comes when those who don't need health insurance (Healthy young people) don't pay into the system voluntarily and, thus, the health insurance pool is spread among the medium-high risk population. There's no low-risk population there to average costs downward.

  2. #142
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That's your opinion. It's clear you think it's your right to have me finance your life.
    "Finance my life"? Very droll; don't put words in my mouth.

    While I agree there are problems with the US system, they don't lie in the fact that healthcare is privatized, but the cost to the individual. People who smoke, eat McDonald's every day etc etc should pay more for their health insurance than others... the problem comes when those who don't need health insurance (Healthy young people) don't pay into the system voluntarily and, thus, the health insurance pool is spread among the medium-high risk population. There's no low-risk population there to average costs downward.
    It's entirely to do with the fact it's pretty much exclusively privatized and also controlled by employers as well as insurance companies.

    Fortunately, not everyone is silly enough to believe that "the market" is a panacea.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No one is arguing against anyone's right to access medical care. I'm asking whether or not it's right to foist that bill on someone else. Specifically someone who didn't sign up to finance your poor lifestyle choices in many cases.
    Why do people think that large healthcare costs are only about poor lifestyle choices? I've had atrial fibrillation since I was 20, got it from my Grandfather. No poor lifestyle choices here. Also herniated a disc from doing hard manual labor, maybe I shouldn't have been working, that was a poor lifestyle choice.

  4. #144
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Why do people think that large healthcare costs are only about poor lifestyle choices? I've had atrial fibrillation since I was 20, got it from my Grandfather. No poor lifestyle choices here. Also herniated a disc from doing hard manual labor, maybe I shouldn't have been working, that was a poor lifestyle choice.
    Quite clear that Laize doesn't care about people unless it has to do with their profitability. Symptomatic of the US' political culture, unfortunately.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #145
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Apparently I spent $8k on top of my insurance to resolve my serious allergy issues (which didn't work) because I chose to get allergies.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Apparently I spent $8k on top of my insurance to resolve my serious allergy issues (which didn't work) because I chose to get allergies.
    Why would you do something silly like that?
    "No more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you’ve got, this year! No more of this old stuff."
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  7. #147
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Apparently I spent $8k on top of my insurance to resolve my serious allergy issues (which didn't work) because I chose to get allergies.
    I need to take medicine for my migraines because I chose to be genetically more susceptible to them, too.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #148
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That's your opinion. It's clear you think it's your right to have me finance your life.

    While I agree there are problems with the US system, they don't lie in the fact that healthcare is privatized, but the cost to the individual. People who smoke, eat McDonald's every day etc etc should pay more for their health insurance than others... the problem comes when those who don't need health insurance (Healthy young people) don't pay into the system voluntarily and, thus, the health insurance pool is spread among the medium-high risk population. There's no low-risk population there to average costs downward.
    No national health-care->more unhealthy people->bad for everyone (less people working etc).

    And then there's the 'humanist' perspective of things.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I need to take medicine for my migraines because I chose to be genetically more susceptible to them, too.
    side point, what are you taking?

    I get cluster headaches and for the severe ones I've tried Maxalt and Zomig for and haven't had any success.
    "No more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you’ve got, this year! No more of this old stuff."
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  10. #150
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Apparently I spent $8k on top of my insurance to resolve my serious allergy issues (which didn't work) because I chose to get allergies.
    I also choose to develop an auto-immune disease. How could I have been so stupid? Why couldn't I've developed a super-power...
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  11. #151
    Scarab Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That's your opinion. It's clear you think it's your right to have me finance your life.

    While I agree there are problems with the US system, they don't lie in the fact that healthcare is privatized, but the cost to the individual. People who smoke, eat McDonald's every day etc etc should pay more for their health insurance than others... the problem comes when those who don't need health insurance (Healthy young people) don't pay into the system voluntarily and, thus, the health insurance pool is spread among the medium-high risk population. There's no low-risk population there to average costs downward.
    nice how your argument about poor lifestyle choices completely ignores the fact some people are born with certain diseases/conditions. i have epilepsy.....but nope thats my fault for living a poor lifestyle choice of doing what exactly? i guess epilepsy is a choice now?

  12. #152
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    side point, what are you taking?

    I get cluster headaches and for the severe ones I've tried Maxalt and Zomig for and haven't had any success.
    For my migraines? Propranolol.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    I also choose to develop an auto-immune disease. How could I have been so stupid? Why couldn't I've developed a super-power...
    Maybe it is a superpower!

    Celiac Man!
    Polymyositis Boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    For my migraines? Propranolol.
    ah damn, tried that before :\ Couldn't sleep worth a damn while on it and it did very little to stop severe incidents.
    "No more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you’ve got, this year! No more of this old stuff."
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  14. #154
    Denmark everything is free...
    not totally true some of our medical Prescriptions cost money..
    same as pills for headache and so on.

  15. #155
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    ah damn, tried that before :\ Couldn't sleep worth a damn while on it and it did very little to stop severe incidents.
    For really severe ones I dig into my stash of Oxycodone.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #156
    The Patient
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    Lab work: free
    Hospital stays: 15 euros per day
    ER: 20-30 euros
    A visit to a doctor: 14 euros (3 times cap)
    All of these fees share a yearly cap of 636 euros, after which they are free

    The problem with the public healthcare here is that there are usually long waiting times.

    There is also private healthcare but it's small. User fees are high but national health insurance covers a part of the costs.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    For really severe ones I dig into my stash of Oxycodone.
    Yeah unfortunately I need something I can take more frequently haha.
    "No more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you’ve got, this year! No more of this old stuff."
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No one is arguing against anyone's right to access medical care. I'm asking whether or not it's right to foist that bill on someone else. Specifically someone who didn't sign up to finance your poor lifestyle choices in many cases.
    You can apply this to all taxation by the government.

    Why do I have to pay for roads that I don't use?
    Why do I have to pay for schools/kindergardens when I don't have children?
    Why do I have to pay for the military to conduct operations that I do not support?
    Why do I have to pay for NASA when the Bible clearly states they are wrong?
    Why are national products (like grain) subsidized with my money?

    Answer:
    Because we are living in a democracy and thankfully many voters realize that a government shouldn't just care what's right for 'them' but what is right for the community.

  19. #159
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    I also choose to develop an auto-immune disease. How could I have been so stupid? Why couldn't I've developed a super-power...
    I developed the superpower of being allergic to everything I was tested for - local flora and fauna and over 140 things - except cockroaches and dogs.

    They will never overpower me.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  20. #160
    Scarab Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    I developed the superpower of being allergic to everything I was tested for - local flora and fauna and over 140 things - except cockroaches and dogs.

    They will never overpower me.
    that still doesnt compare to my ability to make myself flail about and convulse like magikarp out of water.

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