View Poll Results: Should the police have been called?

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  • Yes

    29 13.94%
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    126 60.58%
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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Rommon64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    1st amendment is really shaking these days. I'm not sure how westboro really gets away with it. I've seen police get involved over yelling fights calling it disturbing the peace. How is that same church not disturbing the peace?
    Almost every member is a lawyer who became one just to defend the 'church'.
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  2. #22
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Sunrise View Post
    Odd... I've made my opinions known about rules before (going along with the punishment, of course) and came out fine. The trick is to be calm about the damn thing.
    No free speech doesn't mean you'll be punished for saying anything, it just means it's not a right and they can punish you if they want.
    Which is true I assume, not being an American or going to an American school I don't know but I assume you can get detention and similar things for words.

    O.T
    What I don't understand is why the police were even called. They could just give him detention, I really don't understand why the police were involved.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    This happened last week, if he was loud/violent it would of been said all ready.
    so it's a week old and nothing new has come of it. Sounds to me like a non-issue...
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  4. #24
    http://www.uscourts.gov/EducationalR...peechMean.aspx
    Freedom of speech does not include the right:

    • To incite actions that would harm others (e.g. “[S]hout[ing] ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
      Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
    • To make or distribute obscene materials.
      Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).
    • To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
      United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).
    • To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration.
      Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).
    • Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
      Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).
    • Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
      Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).
    This seems to fall in line with other rulings as long as the school administration said it was obscene. Considering the stance schools have had with guns lately, I'd say that isn't too far of a stretch. So no, it was not oppressing the students 1st amendment rights.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Wrong. You don't have first amendment rights in school.

    Ex. Westboro can spew their hateful shit in public, but try taking a sign "GOD HATES <*>" to school and watch the results.
    So breaking school rules is a crime now ? Damn, I'm glad I don't live in the US.

  6. #26
    Considering the arresting officer said that he wasn't arrested for wearing the t-shirt...I'd say this topic (and not surprisingly most news article headlines) are pretty misleading.
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  7. #27
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Considering the arresting officer said that he wasn't arrested for wearing the t-shirt...I'd say this topic (and not surprisingly most news article headlines) are pretty misleading.
    Similar to how there was this big blowout about a kid who got arrested for having American flags on the back of his car. Turns out the flags were ridiculously big and thus a driving hazard.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
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  8. #28
    Brewmaster Jigowatt's Avatar
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    "A West Virginia student was charged with causing a disruption at a middle school when he refused to remove a T-shirt that displayed the National Rifle Association's logo and hunting rifle."
    He probably did something stupid like teenagers tend to do. It's just another story being fished out of nothing.

    The Huffington Post is a news site that will not always have the same people writing. Those people will bend the story for their audience
    Last edited by Jigowatt; 2013-04-23 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #29
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelayah View Post
    So breaking school rules is a crime now ? Damn, I'm glad I don't live in the US.
    Disorderly conduct is a crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Disorderly conduct is a crime.
    So it was disorderly conduct? Like what was he doing?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    http://www.uscourts.gov/EducationalR...peechMean.aspx


    This seems to fall in line with other rulings as long as the school administration said it was obscene. Considering the stance schools have had with guns lately, I'd say that isn't too far of a stretch. So no, it was not oppressing the students 1st amendment rights.
    And why do schools have a stance on guns why do they have the stance that guns are obscene ? we send our kids to be educated not propagandized by one sides beliefs

  12. #32
    Dreadlord Khatix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Considering the arresting officer said that he wasn't arrested for wearing the t-shirt...I'd say this topic (and not surprisingly most news article headlines) are pretty misleading.
    Of course the officer would say it wasn't about the shirt, and it wasn't. He was arrested because the officer did what the principal/teacher wanted, the kid wasn't violent the officer should of told them to call his parents and left.

  13. #33
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    And why do schools have a stance on guns why do they have the stance that guns are obscene ? we send our kids to be educated not propagandized by one sides beliefs
    Public education is by nature a form of propaganda.

    Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 10:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    Of course the officer would say it wasn't about the shirt, and it wasn't. He was arrested because the officer did what the principal/teacher wanted, the kid wasn't violent the officer should of told them to call his parents and left.
    Should have.

    Also, I'd like to read more on this case before passing judgment. Or rather, before agreeing with you.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #34
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    And why do schools have a stance on guns why do they have the stance that guns are obscene ? we send our kids to be educated not propagandized by one sides beliefs
    God forbid school officials have a fear of things they and their students are shot up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    Of course the officer would say it wasn't about the shirt, and it wasn't. He was arrested because the officer did what the principal/teacher wanted, the kid wasn't violent the officer should of told them to call his parents and left.
    You don't know that he wasn't violent/aggressive beyond the kid's word.
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  16. #36
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Disorderly conduct is a crime.
    But that still doesn't explain why the police came.
    The only time the police ever came to my high school was if drugs were found, which happened once that I can remember in my five years there. Nothing else would cause the police to be called because the school system could handle the rest internally, whether that be fighting, yelling, vandalism, or refusing to meet school code.

    If he refused to take the shirt off, he'd get detention, and if he refused to show up to detention because of some idea of free speech then he'd get suspended, if he kept it up he'd eventually get expelled. But no part of that needs police involvement. That's just escalating the situation more than it needs to be.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Public education is by nature a form of propaganda.

    Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you.
    depends if you agree with the propaganda or not

  18. #38
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    Of course the officer would say it wasn't about the shirt, and it wasn't. He was arrested because the officer did what the principal/teacher wanted, the kid wasn't violent the officer should of told them to call his parents and left.
    Technically if you don't abide by school policies, you need to leave. The student wasn't doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anakso View Post
    If he refused to take the shirt off, he'd get detention, and if he refused to show up to detention because of some idea of free speech then he'd get suspended, if he kept it up he'd eventually get expelled. But no part of that needs police involvement. That's just escalating the situation more than it needs to be.
    In my school if you refused to abide by the dress code and didn't change you were asked to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  19. #39
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakso View Post
    But that still doesn't explain why the police came.
    The only time the police ever came to my high school was if drugs were found, which happened once that I can remember in my five years there. Nothing else would cause the police to be called because the school system could handle the rest internally, whether that be fighting, yelling, vandalism, or refusing to meet school code.

    If he refused to take the shirt off, he'd get detention, and if he refused to show up to detention because of some idea of free speech then he'd get suspended, if he kept it up he'd eventually get expelled. But no part of that needs police involvement. That's just escalating the situation more than it needs to be.
    They do things a bit differently here in the US. In a lot of districts, there's usually a police officer that's stationed at a school; a positive since it enables a quick response to situations and also helps build a relationship between the cops and their community in a positive capacity.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #40
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    depends if you agree with the propaganda or not
    Should we just start with the Rick Santorum quotes now or later?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

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