Changes I Would Make To LFR

[HeedmySpeed]

I would prefer if LFR's function was exactly what it stands for. Looking For Raid.
Adding a bumperlane mode for raids was dumb but obviously a big hit with the baddies who are greater in number.

I'd like for raiding to have that epic feel again. That feel of "these aren't the ideal conditions for me but I'm here anyways."
I guess what I'm saying is I miss the "pressure" you feel in a raid. Ultimately it may not be significant to your daily life but it's someting to get lost in.

With LFR you have players who are simply thinking "hope the loot I want drops." :/
Give us a stronger reason to raid for real. Don't even give me the OPTION to see it all for nothing.

[Treesus]

LFR is not meant nor should be considered anything more than a glorified 5man. People who keep trying to change it are insane. Blizzard found a niche for casuals to get gear with minimal effort, they are not going to change this for the one or two percent of the population that cant hack it in a Raiding Guild but are "Gym Class Hero's" in LFR.

[eschatological]

After reading some of the stuff they're planning on doing with heroic scenarios, I might not object to an optional objective list based on role, per encounter, which increased your loot chances per objective met.

I mean, it'd be a lot more work for Blizz to put in, but imagine a Jin'rokh encounter in LFR which said:

Tanks:
Don't let the other tank gain more than X stacks of Static Wound (10%)
Have less than Y seconds of standing in conductive waters (5%)
Use a cooldown to mitigate Static Burstx10 (2%)
Use cooldowns to mitigate every Static Burstx10, minimum 5 (15%)

Heals:
Have MORE than Z seconds standing in conductive waters (5%)
If targeted by the ball lightning thing, do not let it hit you while standing in conductive waters (5%)
During a lightning storm, use 3 AoE healing spells. (5%)
During all lightning storms, use 5 AoE healing spells (15%)

etc, etc.

Obviously, the objectives could be tweaked to be fairly loose and able to be met with a modicum of effort. This would also discourage people queuing as healers and then DPSing because they'd lose a significant chunk of chance to get loot just for performing their role. And, in older raids, where the chance to get loot is already about 30%, you could possibly up it to about 50-60% with good performance (the %s up there are way theoretical, and probably too high, though there should be some "high reward" objectives). It can funnel players to good behavior on a fight and actually maybe somehow prepare them for normal modes.

Edit: And it would allow me to gear up my alts in old raids even quicker because this is stuff I already do!

[SamR]

Tanks:
Don't let the other tank gain more than X stacks of Static Wound (10%)

So now if you get grouped with an idiot tank who keeps taunting back before his stacks wear off, it drastically reduces your own chance for loot.

Let's not even mention a healer who dies early because of a ninja pull or bad tanking getting screwed out of loot chance under this system.

I can just picture instance chat now as dead people scream at the raid to wipe so they can get full loot chance.

[eschatological]

Well, if capitalism works, you'll be invested in making that bad tank better, and he'll be invested in getting better, if the incentive is good enough.

[Deleted]

After reading some of the stuff they're planning on doing with heroic scenarios, I might not object to an optional objective list based on role, per encounter, which increased your loot chances per objective met.

I mean, it'd be a lot more work for Blizz to put in, but imagine a Jin'rokh encounter in LFR which said:

Tanks:
Don't let the other tank gain more than X stacks of Static Wound (10%)
Have less than Y seconds of standing in conductive waters (5%)
Use a cooldown to mitigate Static Burstx10 (2%)
Use cooldowns to mitigate every Static Burstx10, minimum 5 (15%)

Heals:
Have MORE than Z seconds standing in conductive waters (5%)
If targeted by the ball lightning thing, do not let it hit you while standing in conductive waters (5%)
During a lightning storm, use 3 AoE healing spells. (5%)
During all lightning storms, use 5 AoE healing spells (15%)

etc, etc.

Obviously, the objectives could be tweaked to be fairly loose and able to be met with a modicum of effort. This would also discourage people queuing as healers and then DPSing because they'd lose a significant chunk of chance to get loot just for performing their role. And, in older raids, where the chance to get loot is already about 30%, you could possibly up it to about 50-60% with good performance (the %s up there are way theoretical, and probably too high, though there should be some "high reward" objectives). It can funnel players to good behavior on a fight and actually maybe somehow prepare them for normal modes.

Edit: And it would allow me to gear up my alts in old raids even quicker because this is stuff I already do!

Nice idea. But the guy below your post has a valid concern. Maybe make optional objectives which doesn't require another player. Let's say you get more valor if you avoid sha of fear breath attack?

[Whiskra]

As far as I'm concerned, the only "change" I'd ever consider for LFR was to make it 10 man, to promote cooperation and teamplay more, and hopefully make queues faster. But since it's obvious that so many people aren't team players in this game (which makes it funny to have something "rewarding" for them, since teamwork is all this game is about really), it probably wouldn't work, and LFR is good as it is for "rewarding" those kind of people, the lowest common denominator.

[Surfd]

The Trial By Combat thing already exists (at least for DPS). It is called The Brawler's Guild.

It has every requirement you need:
- Many many fights where you must dps while avoiding stuff that will quickly kill you
- Many fights where you must dps on the move
- ALL fights have a strict DPS requirement (it dies in 2 minutes or you do).
- Several fights where you must effectively dps 2 or more different creatures in different orders to win.
- Fights where you need to aoe
- Fights where you should avoid it
- Fights where you actually have to learn where your interupt ability is and when to use it.

Just require a minimum brawl guild level relative to your character's ilevel before they can queue as DPS.

I dare you.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

Nice idea. But the guy below your post has a valid concern. Maybe make optional objectives which doesn't require another player. Let's say you get more valor if you avoid sha of fear breath attack?

Does anyone wander outside of the cone in LFR anyway?

[The One Percent]

LFR is fine for what it is. When I want to actually push myself I raid with my guild or pvp with my friends.

[Deleted]

Does anyone wander outside of the cone in LFR anyway?

You would be surprised.

[KBWarriors]

Does anyone wander outside of the cone in LFR anyway?

Yes, quite a few people do. However, the majority of the time, the majority of the group just ignores the adds and burns the boss unless they get hit by cackle.

LFR is fine for what it is. When I want to actually push myself I raid with my guild or pvp with my friends.

Avoiding AoE and following simple mechanics is pushing yourself? Heroic raiders have their own way to push themselves but perhaps the problem with a lot of the fresh 90s today is there not required to push themselves.

The Trial By Combat thing already exists (at least for DPS). It is called The Brawler's Guild.

It has every requirement you need:
- Many many fights where you must dps while avoiding stuff that will quickly kill you
- Many fights where you must dps on the move
- ALL fights have a strict DPS requirement (it dies in 2 minutes or you do).
- Several fights where you must effectively dps 2 or more different creatures in different orders to win.
- Fights where you need to aoe
- Fights where you should avoid it
- Fights where you actually have to learn where your interupt ability is and when to use it.

Just require a minimum brawl guild level relative to your character's ilevel before they can queue as DPS.

I dare you.

The Brawler's guild was such a cool idea until of course the idea fairy came along somewhere in HQ. Why on earth they decided to make it so only ONE PERSON can queue at a time is beyond me. I play on Illidan and I still can't justify spending several thousand or whatever it's worth now to enter it. I've always wanted to do it just for the achievements and the hand BoA items are cool but on my server someone's always in the pit.

It was such a shame to see such a great idea put to waste like that.

As far as I'm concerned, the only "change" I'd ever consider for LFR was to make it 10 man, to promote cooperation and teamplay more, and hopefully make queues faster. But since it's obvious that so many people aren't team players in this game (which makes it funny to have something "rewarding" for them, since teamwork is all this game is about really), it probably wouldn't work, and LFR is good as it is for "rewarding" those kind of people, the lowest common denominator.

While I agree it would be nice to implement change that would encourage team-work, unfortunately I'm not sure how to go about that. Players have become so entitled over the years that they've gotten into this attitude or complaining when ever they feel "forced" to do something they don't want to do.

Take World Boss Nalak for example. Everyone wanted their new loot pinata to be up BUT how many people participated in doing dailies to help their server progress along quicker? On my server it started at around 40% and quickly dropped to 10% as the event progressed. When I bought up the idea of people having to do dailies in order to get access to all the rare spawns they constantly farm, the word "forced" came up constantly.

"We shouldn't be FORCED to do anything."
"I play how I want to play, I'm not FORCED to do dailies."

It's just ridiculous to see how so many people wanted a loot pinata up but they weren't willing to do ONE daily a day to help progress the server and get him up quicker. Blizzard needs to change their stance on these people or else the entitlement era will continue. So what if players are "forced" to do something they don't want to do in order to get to something they want. In Burning Crusade we were forced to grind rep, get keys, get attunements, etc. Yes, it wasn't the most fun thing ever, but we knew that's what we had to do.

Now days, you can't even get people to do a single daily for potential epics. That's the problem with the general attitude of the community and the game. Then you have double standards such as Blizzard putting a 1k Valor Cap every week and them gating bosses for LFR so people don't progress too "quickly". Tuning up LFR to make people actually try and work as a team is just a start.

People would hate the game being hard at first but they would adapt and eventually quit complaining about it (for the most part). You can't completely kill off the complaining, it's always going to be there. They're not going to go anywhere else, they might try some other games for a little while but like the majority of us who have quit for a little while, we always come back due to a lack of options of games that are nearly as fun.

Going even further, I wouldn't make heroics such a cake walk like they are today. I would revert them back to Burning Crusade difficulty and get people to put their CC/Silences and survival CDs back on their action bars/keybinds. One of the worst mistakes they made was nerfing Heroics after the severe cry and havoc of the forums during the Cataclysm launch. Were they honestly that hard...? I did them, with a healer, a tank and a DPS and I honestly didn't see how they were difficult at all. That's just a few of the changes I would implement.

[ItachiZaku]

No, I'm not in favor of these changes. I was actually telling someone last night that I was going to be more of a prick in LFR. Not killing adds on Horridon etc, since following mechanics and using defensive CDs and self heals, using interrupts, etc go unnoticed and unappreciated, I might as well just do my own thing, right?

I really dislike the tank bonus. Tanks get too much as is with their bag of spoils in heroic dungeons.

I do think they should auto kick for need rolling on greens.

[jetersky]

the 1st part yes with some change to rewarding system not to the firs bud there will be limit of minimal dps per max ilvl
somethink like 463-60k dps 476-70k 483-80k 496-90k 500+/-100k dps
for healers it will be measured by apm

Damn, people must think I'm crap when I come in my alts, cause I am barely doing 65k at 470 ilvl, depending on the fight. Stuff still manage to fall over though. /shrug.

[wheelock789]

The Brawler's guild was such a cool idea until of course the idea fairy came along somewhere in HQ. Why on earth they decided to make it so only ONE PERSON can queue at a time is beyond me. I play on Illidan and I still can't justify spending several thousand or whatever it's worth now to enter it. I've always wanted to do it just for the achievements and the hand BoA items are cool but on my server someone's always in the pit.

It was such a shame to see such a great idea put to waste like that.

Blizzard did that in an attempt (perhaps misguided) to foster some sort of community around brawling. If it was instanced it would just be another isolating queue system. This way you can watch other people, maybe offer some help or get ideas watching their strats. Sure, you could just tab out and go to youtube to look up how to do each boss - and nothing stops you from doing that while you wait your turn. I understand that you just want to burn through the fights but they wanted to keep at least some things in the world.

And several thousand gold? Maybe for the month or so after they launched. Nowadays on Dragonblight they're down to a few hundred. And you can also farm the faction rare spawns in Krasarang for an invite.

In Burning Crusade we were forced to grind rep, get keys, get attunements, etc. Yes, it wasn't the most fun thing ever, but we knew that's what we had to do.

It was more than not fun - it sucked. I remember grinding steamvaults to get exalted with CE for my Earthwarden on my druid. I also remember having to class stack for CC in heroics, which also sucked. Though it is weird that now, when almost every class has some CC, they're almost never used. *shrug* And attunements were a nightmare for raiding guilds making the jump from T5 to T6. It made recruiting miserable, burned raid nights - not to mention people that would use you to to get attuned and then jump ship for a more progressed guild.

Now days, you can't even get people to do a single daily for potential epics.

So I hallucinated all those people on Isle of Thunder doing dailies with me? Good to know, I'll go get my meds checked.

Meh, I already responded to your claims that people would get better - no sense retreading that ground. The current progression model has problems, but I think the ones in the old model were worse. If you really don't want to deal with stupid/bad people, make some friends or join a guild. Or stop doing LFR.

[KBWarriors]

Blizzard did that in an attempt (perhaps misguided) to foster some sort of community around brawling. If it was instanced it would just be another isolating queue system. This way you can watch other people, maybe offer some help or get ideas watching their strats. Sure, you could just tab out and go to youtube to look up how to do each boss - and nothing stops you from doing that while you wait your turn. I understand that you just want to burn through the fights but they wanted to keep at least some things in the world.

And several thousand gold? Maybe for the month or so after they launched. Nowadays on Dragonblight they're down to a few hundred. And you can also farm the faction rare spawns in Krasarang for an invite.

You can't keep catering to the lazy players and then try to instill a sense of community in them. All that does is creates frustration because they have to wait or have to work together.

It was more than not fun - it sucked. I remember grinding steamvaults to get exalted with CE for my Earthwarden on my druid. I also remember having to class stack for CC in heroics, which also sucked. Though it is weird that now, when almost every class has some CC, they're almost never used. *shrug* And attunements were a nightmare for raiding guilds making the jump from T5 to T6. It made recruiting miserable, burned raid nights - not to mention people that would use you to to get attuned and then jump ship for a more progressed guild.

Actually guild recruiting wasn't too bad, but maybe it was different for other servers than Illidan. There was no way any one jumped ship without having the experience and gear to progress on our server, plus we knew all the guild hoppers because there was a better sense of community back then.

Sucked? Or was the most fun expansion you ever played? I like to think it was both...

So I hallucinated all those people on Isle of Thunder doing dailies with me? Good to know, I'll go get my meds checked.

Meh, I already responded to your claims that people would get better - no sense retreading that ground. The current progression model has problems, but I think the ones in the old model were worse. If you really don't want to deal with stupid/bad people, make some friends or join a guild. Or stop doing LFR.

...Did I say not a single person was doing dailies? No, I did not. I said the participation rates were horribly low because people are disgustingly lazy and don't want to put any effort in to get access to their loot pinata. Blizzard has been encouraging this kind of behavior for far too long and it needs to change.

The only people saying "you'd lose subscriptions" are those lazy people. Hardly anyone would leave, where are they going to go? Guild Wars 2? SWTOR? Path of Exile? They're fun and all, but they aren't going to keep the attention span of someone who's use to getting everything without effort for very long.

[Phuongvi]

I got a few loots from the LFR and now I need a few upgrade here in there on the 4 ToT section

I need to queue 45 minutes each section, and If I pass one of the boss I want, then I have to re-queu 30-45 minutes.

Even if they made some rules or other shit, I don't care.

There's no more motivation for me for doing LFR

[KBWarriors]

I got a few loots from the LFR and now I need a few upgrade here in there on the 4 ToT section

I need to queue 45 minutes each section, and If I pass one of the boss I want, then I have to re-queu 30-45 minutes.

Even if they made some rules or other shit, I don't care.

There's no more motivation for me for doing LFR

What about motivation to obtaining the gear you badly want?

[Well]

Just no. People that are new may not even have recount installed or anything similar. No one is going to change their game to your standards. And I say that even if the one thing I hate is slackers.

[Phuongvi]

What about motivation to obtaining the gear you badly want?

I'm not motivated because it take too long to complete a freaking LFR section, and I swear the other day I waited 41 minutes.
Baddies or afker are not my main concern

You know, some people want a reward for good behavior in LFR to keep the motivation.

I just want want a 10 minutes queue time wait to keep my motivation

and to deal with the afker, just kick them no need to have a shitload of quest trial for welfare epics LFR loot just because 5% of the people are assholes