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  1. #1

    5.3 25m healing CDs

    So it looks like all major healer Cooldowns are getting revamped to include 2x the targets in 25m mode. An interesting change, and I wonder if they will start doing this to other abilities and make them different depending on what mode you are in. Also will make comparing healing via logs when im poking around WoL a bit tricky.

  2. #2
    Super good change.

    Welcome it.

    +1 to Blizzard.

  3. #3
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    I wonder how big an impact this will have on fights like Megaera or Iron Qon HC.
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  4. #4
    That will help healer balance a lot.

  5. #5
    As a shaman, this seems kinda bad.

  6. #6
    Good change for healers, but I think boomkin/bear HotW tranq needs to be nerfed down to current healing levels. Too good for non-healers to have IMO.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire
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    Looks like 25m is going to need A LOT more raid damage to happen, considering all the cooldowns already at your disposal. Expect the next tier to have insane healing requirements from this change =]

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymitylol View Post
    Looks like 25m is going to need A LOT more raid damage to happen, considering all the cooldowns already at your disposal. Expect the next tier to have insane healing requirements from this change =]
    Hope they will be doable in 10 man then -.-

  9. #9
    Why do they need it?

    25man already has x2 ++ number of healers. No need for change.

    This will make 25man easier than 10man and they will have to increase raid damage to tune them

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    This is basicly a nerf to 25m... there are allready so many CDs to use, now you can just chain them one after the other for the rest of the fight, no other healing required, haha.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    This is basicly a nerf to 25m... there are allready so many CDs to use, now you can just chain them one after the other for the rest of the fight, no other healing required, haha.
    Try chaining all 25 man healing CDs back to back and let us know how you do.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesther View Post
    Try chaining all 25 man healing CDs back to back and let us know how you do.
    Going by our normal raid comp:
    3 Druids(2 Resto)
    3 Monks(1 MW)
    4 Paladins(1 Holy)
    2 Shamans(1 Ele, 1 Resto)
    2 Priests(1 Shadow, 1 Disc)
    2 Rogues

    That brings us up to a total of:
    4 Tranqs(1 SP Tranq included)
    4 Devotion Aura
    3 Monk(whatever the Spell re-direction-to-monk thing is)
    1 Revival
    2 HTT
    1 SLT
    1 Spirit Shell
    1 Barrier
    2 Smoke Bomb
    Total: 19 Raid-wide CDs that help the raid in some way.

    Could be more, sometimes we have 2 Disc Priests, sometimes 2 Hpalas, sometimes 3 total Shamans(Our MW Monk is still being geared, he recently swapped mains from Resto Shaman).

    This means that only our four tranqs(2 Resto, 1 Bear(possibly with the 90 talent for boost?) and SPriest) and Revival will be buffed.
    Still a lot of CDs.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Going by our normal raid comp:
    3 Druids(2 Resto)
    3 Monks(1 MW)
    4 Paladins(1 Holy)
    2 Shamans(1 Ele, 1 Resto)
    2 Priests(1 Shadow, 1 Disc)
    2 Rogues

    That brings us up to a total of:
    4 Tranqs(1 SP Tranq included)
    4 Devotion Aura
    3 Monk(whatever the Spell re-direction-to-monk thing is)
    1 Revival
    2 HTT
    1 SLT
    1 Spirit Shell
    1 Barrier
    2 Smoke Bomb
    Total: 19 Raid-wide CDs that help the raid in some way.

    Could be more, sometimes we have 2 Disc Priests, sometimes 2 Hpalas, sometimes 3 total Shamans(Our MW Monk is still being geared, he recently swapped mains from Resto Shaman).

    This means that only our four tranqs(2 Resto, 1 Bear(possibly with the 90 talent for boost?) and SPriest) and Revival will be buffed.
    Still a lot of CDs.
    no warriors? banner and RC

    spriest tranq heals for so little it's not even worth casting unfortunately

    bear tranq is as good as a healer's if they have HotW (lvl 90 talent)

  14. #14
    Good. Cooldowns will now be balanced across the two difficulties. It was dumb that healing cooldowns (tranq, revival etc) were double as strong in 10 man compared to 25 man, while reduction cooldowns were the same strength.


    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Why do they need it?

    25man already has x2 ++ number of healers. No need for change.

    This will make 25man easier than 10man and they will have to increase raid damage to tune them
    Basic math. 2 healers in 10 man equals 5 healers in 25 man. 3 Healers in 10 man equals 7.5 healers in 25 man. Thus any fight that is 3 healed, 10 man has alot more relative power in terms of healing output per person than 25 man, as no bosses use more than 7 healers. Any fight where they use 2 in 10 man is equal to 25's 5.

    Also, raid damage is already higher on alot of abilities in 25 man.
    Few examples -
    Lu'lins cosmic barrage (10% stronger).
    Suen's pulsing dmg (10% stronger).
    Horridon's Dire Call (~8% stronger).
    Sul's Sandbolt (~10% stronger).
    Tortos' Snapping Bite (25% stronger).
    Durumu's light beams (166.6K vs 500K - a *3 multiplier, however due to obvious reasons, you can have a max of 8 people in 25 man per beam, and 3 in 10 man, making it a ~13% difference).
    Primordius' Primordial Strike (11% stronger).
    Iron Qon's Impale (~33% stronger).
    Ro'shak on Iron Qon once again has a 1:3 damage ratio on his AOE, see Lightbeams for reasoning. Along with this, dmg taken is increased by 5% more in 25 than in 10.
    Quet's Arcing Lightning (~7% stronger).
    Quet's windstorm (~7% stronger).
    Dam'ren's Freeze (~7% stronger).
    Dam'ren's frozen blood (10% stronger).
    Qon's Fist Smash (~18% stronger).
    Qon's Cyclone empower (10% stronger).

    There's plenty of damage more in 25 than in 10.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-04-23 at 11:04 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Why do they need it?

    25man already has x2 ++ number of healers. No need for change.

    This will make 25man easier than 10man and they will have to increase raid damage to tune them
    Its not about needing it, its about healer balance. Abilities that are capped to a certain # of players obviously need to scale based on the # of players in the raid.

    Raid wide mitigation abilities effect 10 or 25 people, meaning they multiply by 2.5 for total mitigation done. Healing CDs like Tranq need to multiply too as raids get bigger.

    Honestly this will not be THAT much of a buff. Its not like 25m will all of the sudden be trivialized at the expanse of 10m raiders. It'll just make Resto Druids in 25 much happier that their CD can scale the way, for example, PW: Barrier scales.


  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    no warriors? banner and RC

    spriest tranq heals for so little it's not even worth casting unfortunately

    bear tranq is as good as a healer's if they have HotW (lvl 90 talent)
    Unfortunately, we have no Warriors atm, our regular Warrior quit(been in the guild like 2 years I guess) and our Warrior tank(3rd Tank if needed) also quit.
    Spriest Tranq is still worth casting if the raid is taking insane damage(Iron Qon last phase at 10 stacks etc.)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Unfortunately, we have no Warriors atm, our regular Warrior quit(been in the guild like 2 years I guess) and our Warrior tank(3rd Tank if needed) also quit.
    Spriest Tranq is still worth casting if the raid is taking insane damage(Iron Qon last phase at 10 stacks etc.)
    It's not, we had our spriest get tranq last night when we saw the patch notes to see how much healing it did. She reported 8K hits, and 3x stacks of the HOT afterwards gave 4K ticks. So ~10K per hit, times 12, 120K healing per tick of tranq. It's pretty useless.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Good. Cooldowns will now be balanced across the two difficulties. It was dumb that healing cooldowns (tranq, revival etc) were double as strong in 10 man compared to 25 man, while reduction cooldowns were the same strength.




    Basic math. 2 healers in 10 man equals 5 healers in 25 man. 3 Healers in 10 man equals 7.5 healers in 25 man. Thus any fight that is 3 healed, 10 man has alot more relative power in terms of healing output per person than 25 man, as no bosses use more than 7 healers. Any fight where they use 2 in 10 man is equal to 25's 5.

    Also, raid damage is already higher on alot of abilities in 25 man.
    Few examples -
    Lu'lins cosmic barrage (10% stronger).
    Suen's pulsing dmg (10% stronger).
    Horridon's Dire Call (~8% stronger).
    Sul's Sandbolt (~10% stronger).
    Tortos' Snapping Bite (25% stronger).
    Durumu's light beams (166.6K vs 500K - a *3 multiplier, however due to obvious reasons, you can have a max of 8 people in 25 man per beam, and 3 in 10 man, making it a ~13% difference).
    Primordius' Primordial Strike (11% stronger).
    Iron Qon's Impale (~33% stronger).
    Ro'shak on Iron Qon once again has a 1:3 damage ratio on his AOE, see Lightbeams for reasoning. Along with this, dmg taken is increased by 5% more in 25 than in 10.
    Quet's Arcing Lightning (~7% stronger).
    Quet's windstorm (~7% stronger).
    Dam'ren's Freeze (~7% stronger).
    Dam'ren's frozen blood (10% stronger).
    Qon's Fist Smash (~18% stronger).
    Qon's Cyclone empower (10% stronger).

    There's plenty of damage more in 25 than in 10.
    As it should be anyway, in 25 man you have a high ilvl so you have more HP and harder hitting heals.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasc View Post
    As it should be anyway, in 25 man you have a high ilvl so you have more HP and harder hitting heals.
    No, the reason is that in 25m you have way more cd's to chain. Sure, a tranq may be more effective in 10m relatively speaking, but you can still only use it once / 3 minutes. That's not the problem, reduction cd's are.

    Several bosses have a soft enrage or ramping up damage near the end of the fight: Megaera, Animus, Iron Qon and Lei Shen come to mind.

    Let's take Iron Qon as an example:

    10m:
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 1: Healer cd 1
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 2: Healer cd 2
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 3: Healer cd 3 (If you're 3 healing, you might be f'd already)
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 4: DEATH.

    25m:
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 1: Healer cd 1
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 2: Healer cd 2
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 3: Healer cd 3
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 4: Healer cd 4*
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 4: Healer cd 5
    Otherwise lethal Fist Smash 4: Healer cd 6
    .....

    See the difference? Sure you might be lucky to have some rogues or whatnot that can also cd the raid, but that holds for 25m as well.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasc View Post
    As it should be anyway, in 25 man you have a high ilvl so you have more HP and harder hitting heals.
    You don't have higher iLvl, that's just nonsense, it's all about RNG, you still get the same amount of loot per player, sure you might not get something any of your raid members need in 10m, but same situation is in 25m(All hunters have weapons and boss drops 2 ranged weps? Wasted loot)

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