View Poll Results: Should the Kanrethad Fight become a scaled encounter?

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  • Yes, it should still require some work.

    60 53.57%
  • No, you should be able to sneeze on him and have him keel over dead.

    24 21.43%
  • I really couldn't care less.

    28 25.00%
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  1. #1

    Should this epic quest chain be changed to scale with gear level?

    Title says it all. Do you think that the Kanrethad Fight / Green Fire quest chain should be changed to scale with gear? Or that Gear should scale down? Blizzard obviously has the technology(challenge modes). I believe that you should be able to outgear it to a point(ilevel 510 MAX), but it should always require at least SOME skill to kill him. I really do not want green fire to become something that everyone and their dog can get because they can come back one expansion later and sneeze on him.

    Thoughts?
    "You will bend to my will... with or without your precious sanity!

  2. #2

  3. #3
    The fight itself is intentionally overtuned (blizzard admitted it), if Blizzard decided to scale down the gear then they should also nerf the boss.

  4. #4
    It is meant to really make the use of some otherwise underused warlock abilities actually matter and IF scaling could be pulled off that allows a fairly consistent difficulty level then that could be promising.
    But given past history I very much doubt it could be made to work right.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    The fight itself is intentionally overtuned (blizzard admitted it), if Blizzard decided to scale down the gear then they should also nerf the boss.
    They did not say that - what they said was that there is no need to nerf the fight, as self-nerf will happen as players get better gear in 5.3, 5.4. Already a warlock in ilvl 522+ was able to burn him down before the first felhunter phase. Most likely 522 will be the new LFR gear in 5.4, so way more people will be able to complete the quest.

    Having said that I am all for capping it at ilvl 510. The fight should test you as a player, and skipping large portion of goes against the idea of this encounter. ilvl510 will allow you to comfortably get a kill as long as you know and practice the mechanics.

  6. #6
    Item level alone is not an effective way of capping the gear.
    Set bonuses in particular which are simply not present on the prior tier cannot scale in the same way that your primary stats would.

  7. #7
    Banned Baker Cat's Avatar
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    Dont make it scale, give hopeless locks a chance [not me, finished him (not an elitist)bag]

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart View Post
    Dont make it scale, give hopeless locks a chance [not me, finished him (not an elitist)bag]
    You are missing the point entirely. This is not an elitist post, I simply want the quest to stay epic and something you have to put a little bit of work in for. How is the quest chain rewarding in any way whatsoever if you walk into Black Temple with ilevel 700, toss a couple chaos bolts and then get your green fire after 3 minutes?
    "You will bend to my will... with or without your precious sanity!

  9. #9
    Run it like challenge modes and gear cap people at ilvl XXX. Adjust dmg/health values accordingly. I did it when it first hit with a 495-500ish ilvl, that felt like a pretty decent challenge. I think that's a good window to scale it to difficulty-wise. Took a solid 2 hours of attempts sorting a strat and making macros. Easier now with all the guides avail, but would at least not be a push over.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Rarespawn2012's Avatar
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    Though I believe the quest/fight should present some challenge, the whole scenario implies that you are a bad ass lock for getting there in the first palce. Why not have a little fun with it. Honestly they should have just made the color change a glyph and gave a legendary weapon or piece of gear.

  11. #11
    I really don't care how they make it in the future, I got mine when it was still difficult as hell to accomplish and I'm proud of that. If people in the future get it quickly and easily with better gear, it doesn't change my accomplishment in the least. If someone goes in there with ilevel 700 gear and two-shots Kanrethad, so what? You can go back to ICC now with 400+ gear and beat the Lich King like he owes you money. Does that make the moment when I beat him back when it was current any less awesome? In my opinion, it does not. When people are going back with ilevel 700 to do ilevel 500-tuned stuff, I'll be beating the challenges for 700.

    When something is rolled out and intended to be challenging, then those people who have the skill to beat the challenge should get to show the fruits of their labors. Shouldn't mean that everyone has to do it that way. If you're fine with waiting until you can trivialize the challenge, then do that. People acknowledge that. Back in Cata, when Org or SW had dragons all over the sky, people knew that someone had gotten their staff, and you could see the congratulations in chat, people would say stuff. Is there as much of a surge now? When Afrasiabi (I think it's him) yells out that someone killed Nefarian, do the cheers ring out in General? The community notices these things and the appropriate response occurs... when they're worth noticing.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    No.
    Hell NO.
    Sitting for 2 days on this EPIC finale totally ate my nerves.
    So no hard feelings.

  13. #13
    I think Blizzard has made it pretty clear that they intend for every warlock to have a chance at green fire, especially once people start overgearing it. I get the impression that they'd be happy with warlocks coming back next expansion and easy-moding it.

    Personally, I'm fine with that.

    edit: Keep in mind that if they were to enforce ilvl scaling on this fight, it would probably have an inverse effect for players in the next expansion. Our stats now are awesome. At level 95/100, a 510 item level = basically no crit, hit, or haste. The fight would actually become harder.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    I think the poll is somewhat biased. "Yes" "No" and "I don't mind either way" is FAR better than "Yes, I want it to require effort", "No, I don't want to have effort in my game" and "I am unassuming and uninteresting", (if you say I'm putting words in your mouth, it's a meta argument)

    Now, as for the quest, I honestly don't think they should keep increasing it, for a few reasons, but mainly: It's a single-use, class specific questline for a cosmetic effect. I honestly don't think this requires the time and effort needed in making sure it's "at the right challenge" for every high-end player. I could understand the argument for scaling old raids, but not this.

    1) Single playthrough. I'm sorry, but this alone should be the reason why it shouldn't be scaled, because there's no point. In 5.3 and after, if you're at a high-enough level where you would benefit from it being scaled up to you, chances are you already have it, so this would only "benefit" a small amount of players who reach the level cap (AND the gear cap) within the specific patch AND who want the "challenge". And, again, since it's not repeatable, you wouldn't be getting any enjoyment out of it. Ok, you played it and it was fun, that's good, but you've already done it. Are you talking about future potential lock alts? Or do you just don't like the idea that people will have something that you had a challenge to get?

    2) If you want the challenge on an alt, surely you can use gear from 5.2, like quest drops and only spells available in 5.2.

    3) Again, since you wouldn't be getting any added benefit, the only purpose it would solve is to block players from getting green fire themselves. You say you want people to experience what you experienced, and I sympathise, but this manipulation of game mechanics to force an experience when that experience has been outdated is, quite frankly and IMO, silly. Far more people have had far more enjoyment (to use the fallacy that enjoyment can be measured) raiding Sunwell, and Blizzard didn't take the effort to scale that. It seems like you care too much about the way other people play the game.

    4) With the way the mechanics itselves are involved, it would still either be too easy, or too hard, depending on how they go about it. And even if all stats are kept as they are at level 100 (or whenever played after 5.2), some mechanics will still be challenging (I'm thinking the Demonic Gateway, the pitlord stun, etc)

    5) Green Fire as an eternal status symbol. I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me. We've had status symbols come and go before. Remember how exciting it was to see that guy on a mount when you were starting out? Or the Sunwell raider? Or the guy who managed to down Raggy HC? Etc etc. Eventually, even IF it worked out to remain a constant challenge, given enough time green fire will still become common place, and everyone will still have it, and something else will become the next status symbol.

    6) Pertaining to 5, I personally don't see Green Fire as a status symbol. I see it as a classwide (or at least spec-wide) aesthetic change that has a level requirement, with a quest added as a half apology/half treat for waiting so long.

    Basically, I'm saying it serves no purpose, and honestly, I think that you're invested too much into Green Fire's status.

  15. #15
    I dont like the choices in the poll. No i dont think it should scale with gear level because the truth is that gear level isnt the key to the encounter. if you can perfectly time every action you need to do to successfully do each individual stage of the fight then you will beat it eventually no matter your ilvl. The difficulty is not based on your damage output, its all mechanics. That said, i think the mechanics are a bit too hard (I have beaten the fight) and unforgiving for the majority of the gaming public.

  16. #16
    I think they should lock it at 490. I dont do PVE anymore so im not sure how easy it gets, but I beat him at 476 full PVP gear. I think 510 PVE gear would be insane and take any skill out of the fight... Honestly, 490 PVE gear might take the majority of the skill out.
    Last edited by lb9591; 2013-04-24 at 03:59 PM.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Pendra's Avatar
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    Yes it should. Beating the boss should require at least some effort, regardless of when someone fights him.
    ~490-495 would be totally fine.

  18. #18
    I cleaved him to death
    Tbh hes hard like rock, did him at 491 tho
    Should'nt scale him, give the bad locks an shot also
    Last edited by Narwhalosh Whalescream; 2013-04-24 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Didnt provide enough info i think

  19. #19
    Leave it the way it is. Otherwise, they would get more QQ for people unable to do it with the scaling like CModes.

  20. #20
    When your gear gets to be 515, go do him again and tell me that you could sleep through the fight.

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