View Poll Results: Should the Kanrethad Fight become a scaled encounter?

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  • Yes, it should still require some work.

    60 53.57%
  • No, you should be able to sneeze on him and have him keel over dead.

    24 21.43%
  • I really couldn't care less.

    28 25.00%
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  1. #21
    I want them to implement class "flavor" quests for all classes and I think they should be updated for each expansion.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster
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    Hopefully I'll be able to level my Warlock and do it. Heard quite a lot of positive words in regards to it.

  3. #23
    I remember doing the quests for my doomguard, fire pony, etc. They were okay-ish the first time around, but I enjoyed doing it on my new lock after my account was hacked at a Burning Crusade item level.

    Sometimes you've gotta let something age, and this is one of those things.
    Last edited by JainaIsAMan; 2013-04-24 at 07:47 PM.

  4. #24
    With later tiers will come new set bonuses, balance changes, fixes or adjustments to mechanics.
    And those are nothing compared to what a new expansion will bring.
    That fight will never be the same if it is scaled, and so serves no purpose whatsoever.

    What you want is simply impossible.

  5. #25
    The fight was never hard to begin with, it's punishing. You fuck up, you die. Sure, it takes a while to get him down due to needing a certain amount of experience with all the mechanics (how much depends on the player), but that's not because the mechanics are inherently difficult. Just punishing, incredibly punishing. There's nothing in the fight that requires split-second reaction time or extremely precise movement or even insanely high DPS. The only thing the fight requires from you is consistency,

  6. #26
    Dreadlord
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    I actually don't care, and I claim there's a good reason for it not to change. I don't think this is something that people thought through. If Blizzard downscales gear for Kanrethad, then, to maintain fairness, they must also make a number of additional adjustments:

    * Make Curse of Doom undispellable with Purification Potions. Otherwise ilvl becomes irrelevant, beyond "can survive the imp burst".
    * Take green fire from anyone who cheesed it with Purification Potions (including me; I freely admit, I was terrible with Charge spam and took a good 60-90 seconds past the 7 minute mark).
    * Take green fire from anyone whose ilvl was significantly higher than the intended value (which appears to be 502, which would take green fire from many Warlocks).
    * Downscale character levels to 90 for this encounter to ensure equal difficulty in future expansions.

    Do you really want them to put this amount of coding time into making those of us who beat it feel special? Have you thought about what this would do to a class that's already third-rarest? Do you want fewer Warlocks than Rogues?

    I think this isn't worth caring about. It's definitely not worth requesting. Accept it for what it is, and tell your friends "hey, I got green fire at ilvl $foo in $bar tries". Any player worth their salt will know the significance of such a statement. It's like saying "I got Herald of the Titans", or "I had full Tier 3", or "I got gladiator before all the first wave wowquit over Mages".
    Last edited by Vulcanasm; 2013-04-24 at 10:02 PM.
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    I somewhat agree, but at the same time I think that it doesn't matter. Even if people struggle with it now, their gear will improve. Or they will get a better hang of the fight and get it done sooner or later.

    Just get some more gear and do it later, what's the big deal.

    Also, some people have done it with very bad gear. Just making sure they where hit capped, their only clear advantage was the purification potion.
    And some people out geared it by such a margin they nuked him down during the first imp phase.

  8. #28
    Either way it will eventually come to a point where red fire is the rarity. If you scale it then everyone will just piss all over it because right now it is pretty much just a dps race once you've got a feel for the adds. If it's left how it is then as soon as everyone and their mums have finish spamming FLR a few times then they'll all have enough gear to blast through it.

    Currently 592 iLevel and I can't seem to nuke him down past about 18mil I think, by that point there's adds all over the fucking world and I just can't deal with it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post
    I actually don't care, and I claim there's a good reason for it not to change. I don't think this is something that people thought through. If Blizzard downscales gear for Kanrethad, then, to maintain fairness, they must also make a number of additional adjustments:

    * Make Curse of Doom undispellable with Purification Potions. Otherwise ilvl becomes irrelevant, beyond "can survive the imp burst".
    * Take green fire from anyone who cheesed it with Purification Potions (including me; I freely admit, I was terrible with Charge spam and took a good 60-90 seconds past the 7 minute mark).
    * Take green fire from anyone whose ilvl was significantly higher than the intended value (which appears to be 502, which would take green fire from many Warlocks).
    * Downscale character levels to 90 for this encounter to ensure equal difficulty in future expansions.

    Do you really want them to put this amount of coding time into making those of us who beat it feel special? Have you thought about what this would do to a class that's already third-rarest? Do you want fewer Warlocks than Rogues?

    I think this isn't worth caring about. It's definitely not worth requesting. Accept it for what it is, and tell your friends "hey, I got green fire at ilvl $foo in $bar tries". Any player worth their salt will know the significance of such a statement. It's like saying "I got Herald of the Titans", or "I had full Tier 3", or "I got gladiator before all the first wave wowquit over Mages".
    The only reason i used a purification potion was because after i killed Ken, two Doomguards were still up. It took me a while to take them down because i wanted to make sure i lived through the whole fight until i clicked him.

    wanna take my green fire away from me? try.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    The only reason i used a purification potion was because after i killed Ken, two Doomguards were still up. It took me a while to take them down because i wanted to make sure i lived through the whole fight until i clicked him.

    wanna take my green fire away from me? try.
    I think he was trying to point out the effort required to keep it a "challenge" (in loose terms), not that he agreed with the constant upkeep.

  11. #31
    if you make him scale I'll never ever be able to down him
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  12. #32
    With the release of the Burning Crusade the Dreadsteed became pretty commonplace.
    This is not the first time a class specific bonus was trivialised by outgearing.

    The scaling will never work, simple as that.
    There are too many factors to take into account, a huge number of which are simply unknown at this point.

  13. #33
    I don't understand why some people seem to think that I want to take their green fire away. Or make it so that you cannot kill him with better gear then what they currently have. When I said cap it a ilevel 510 that was just a number that I threw out there (I killed him at 483 so it seemed reasonable to me). The point is NOT to make it impossible for people to get, the point is to ensure that is not simply a joke to get. Because it is a COSMETIC change which has NO effect on DPS (basically the same as challenge mode gear), it is certainly not essential for all people to get. That being said, it is possible for everyone to get right now especially with the release of ToT LFR, and even more so with the release of SoO LFR in the future. ilevel 510 was just a shot in the dark, maybe 515, but still.... don't let it turn into a joke. That is the entire point behind this thread and anyone who is getting something else from this is either misunderstanding or looking to start a flame war.
    "You will bend to my will... with or without your precious sanity!

  14. #34
    There is no need for it to change, except as some bragging right.
    As you said it is a cosmetic change only and therefore is no reason why it should not be trivialised later by overgearing it.
    Your argument can equally apply for the opposite of what you are asking for.

    If it was ever meant to be meaningful as to when you earned it, then there would be a feat.
    Blizzard have stated specifically that there is no such intent.

    The vast majority of meaningful encounters are now trivailised, or "turned into a joke".
    Why should this be some exception to what is in effect a rule to make people feel special.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ChadBroChill17 View Post
    You are missing the point entirely. This is not an elitist post, I simply want the quest to stay epic and something you have to put a little bit of work in for. How is the quest chain rewarding in any way whatsoever if you walk into Black Temple with ilevel 700, toss a couple chaos bolts and then get your green fire after 3 minutes?

    I think that if they wait that long to do the quest then they SHOULD be able to sneeze on the boss and get their green fire. By that time only the most ego-sensitive of warlock snowflakes would give a damn about it. Its a purely cosmetic change; you don't get any titles, achievements or gear for beating the boss. Also keep in mind that not everyone plays this game for the same reason you do, so you shouldn't expect them to care about the same things you do. Most people play it for fun, entertainment; wiping for hours on this guy isn't very fun.


    I just got the quest yesterday and am on the last boss, and my only problem is I think the damage output by the boss/adds is a bit high I don't have much problem in the way of mechanics. I'm not yet at the part where I throw my keyboard over my shoulder and declare "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!". I do have a question though; is it possible to leave the scenario to repair and not have to start all over again? If not...that's really lame.

  16. #36
    I'm sorry, yes it IS elitist for you to want to impose your own sense of "challenge" upon others.

    Best way to describe the fight is "juggling chainsaws". Some people enjoy that kinda thing, others really don't. Some people are good at that kinda thing, some can get the hang of it with enough practice/trial-and-error and some just simply can't.

  17. #37
    Yes it is possible, you leave the scenario and when you reque it brings you back to the temple summit,

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 11:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    I'm sorry, yes it IS elitist for you to want to impose your own sense of "challenge" upon others.

    Best way to describe the fight is "juggling chainsaws". Some people enjoy that kinda thing, others really don't. Some people are good at that kinda thing, some can get the hang of it with enough practice/trial-and-error and some just simply can't.
    I can see that there is no convincing you, we clearly have different ideas of the word "elitist". I see the word as describing something that is incredibly difficult to obtain (ex. Lich King Heroic 10/25 during WOTLK), something that most normal players have no chance at. Myself included. I do not view something such as this fight being scaled to a gear level that is 30+ ilevels over what it has been completed with as elitist. Perhaps that is just me though.
    "You will bend to my will... with or without your precious sanity!

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadBroChill17 View Post
    I can see that there is no convincing you, we clearly have different ideas of the word "elitist". I see the word as describing something that is incredibly difficult to obtain (ex. Lich King Heroic 10/25 during WOTLK), something that most normal players have no chance at. Myself included. I do not view something such as this fight being scaled to a gear level that is 30+ ilevels over what it has been completed with as elitist. Perhaps that is just me though.
    I believe the person you are quoting is using the term elitist to mean "someone who is highly successful in the game in one or more aspects and who tries to keep that aspect of the game 'challenging' as he has already done it and so doesn't see the trouble others have with it". For example, back when ICC had that stacking buff that gave you extra damage, or anyone who wants to prevent others from attaining something that they have attained.

    Personally, I hate to say it, but I get where he's coming from. You did it and you did it under good circumstances, congratulations, but it seems like you need to judge your experience around the experience of others. Again, I see no logical reason why someone who has already completed the single-use scenario should campaign for it to remain as challenging as it is; because, personally, I feel that by doing that you are dictating what people find "fun".

    EDIT: Oh, and for anyone who is levelling alts, or want to do it "with challenge", again, just wear 5.2 gear, seems the most logical answer.

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