View Poll Results: What counts in a world first kill.

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  • Any Kill on any mode

    156 74.64%
  • 25 man kill is required

    53 25.36%
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  1. #1

    What defines a world first now?

    Got confused. Still wanna discus main point though. What truly defines a world first kill. Does it have to be 25 man to count?
    Last edited by Zantos; 2013-04-23 at 07:15 AM.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Ascendanzy's Avatar
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    I am actually pretty sure Method DID kill Ra-den first. Are you sure you aren't thinking about Lei Shen? (Which is not the Optional boss)

    I also think i saw MMO congratulating Paragon on world first Lei Shen (unless i'm terribly mistaken).
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  3. #3
    From wowprogress: West EU Realm
    Paragon H: Ra-den 5 days ago 2 2 1
    Method H: Ra-den 11 days ago 1 1 1

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Craakar's Avatar
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    I think honestly it should be universally regarded as 10 man World First and 25 man World First, and yeah, Method did kill him first.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Front page of Mmo-champion says grats to method on their World first kill. That confused me since Dream Paragon did kill Ra-Den first. So, I am confused. Does everyone just disregard Dream Paragon now simply because they are 10 instead of 25? Either way, they are top end players and have proven capable of being the top dogs even in 25man. So I guess what I'm really asking is, does 10man even count for a world first?
    Method got world first, that is, world first 25m.
    Paragon got world first, that is, world first 10m.

    Different raid sizes, different difficulty, different race. Which kill came first is irrelevant, you don't compare the fastest time in the 100m sprint with the top time in bobsled races either. Sure Paragon beat 'a' version of the boss first, so you could say that Paragon got the 'overall' world first or something... in my opinion that isn't really relevant though.

  6. #6
    This isnt going to end well... But here we go... Both have their own set of challanges... IMO its the 1st set of people reagrdless of 10 or 25m. If you happen to be a 10m guild and you get 1st then you are the 1st people... same with a 25m
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Callypso View Post
    Method got world first, that is, world first 25m.
    Paragon got world first, that is, world first 10m.

    Different raid sizes, different difficulty, different race. Which kill came first is irrelevant, you don't compare the fastest time in the 100m sprint with the top time in bobsled races either. Sure Paragon beat 'a' version of the boss first, so you could say that Paragon got the 'overall' world first or something... in my opinion that isn't really relevant though.
    But why? To me a first is a first. Both are very difficult to accomplish and require a lot of skill. Why is it the general population thinks that a 10man version of a heroic is easier then a 25man version? Some of those people may never actually see the content once, let alone actually go through and do both and say "Yeah, X boss was easier in this raid size, but Y boss was harder in that same raid size". I would love for method to possibly do a 10man version and give us their true, honest thoughts.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    The first legitimate kill of a boss. 25 and 10 can both have world firsts, they're different sizes and difficulties.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    World first is world first, as long as it was done legit, no matter the raid size.
    World second is world second, even if it was on a different raid size. It still is world first for that raid size.

    For example;
    Method kills last boss (25) on the 5th day it is available
    Paragon kills last boss (10) on the 6th day it is available
    Blood Legion kills last boss (25) on the 6th day it is available, but 3,5hours after Paragon

    Therefore, Method gets THE World First, while Paragon gets World 2nd, World First 10man and Blood Legion is World 3rd, World 2nd 25man and so forth.

  10. #10
    world first is world first no matter the raid size in my opion.

  11. #11
    I don't think the term world first applies anymore tbh.

    That was when all guilds had the same system (10/25, west vs asia). Now we have practically 3 different settings.

    10 man first, 25 man first, and Asia first is more accurate imo. (only 1 for asia since their 10mans are now considered the easier content by defalt)

  12. #12
    World first is whoever kills the boss first, kinda of goes hand in hand with the name.

    But now to be serious, in order to achieve a world first, you are required to do 25 Man and bring 7 and a half raiders, with at least 3 of them being hunters.

    AND

    It has to be completed upside down.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    But why? To me a first is a first. Both are very difficult to accomplish and require a lot of skill. Why is it the general population thinks that a 10man version of a heroic is easier then a 25man version? Some of those people may never actually see the content once, let alone actually go through and do both and say "Yeah, X boss was easier in this raid size, but Y boss was harder in that same raid size". I would love for method to possibly do a 10man version and give us their true, honest thoughts.
    Where in his post did it say that 10m was easier?

    The 10/25m difficulties should be (and in many opinions already are) 2 different races because they are different, not harder/easier. Some bosses are harder on 10m, some on 25m. Depending on where those bosses are and how big the difference is, the race can have a totally different outcome which is why it should be treated as 2 races.

    I think a lot of 10m players (mostly those argue that it's 1 race iirc) feel attacked/insulted when you tell them it's 2 different races because they think their difficulty is being made fun of. This is not the case, it's just 2 totally different things.

    Also, the poll options are stupid/biased.
    Last edited by Ashvael; 2013-04-23 at 08:48 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    But why? To me a first is a first. Both are very difficult to accomplish and require a lot of skill. Why is it the general population thinks that a 10man version of a heroic is easier then a 25man version? Some of those people may never actually see the content once, let alone actually go through and do both and say "Yeah, X boss was easier in this raid size, but Y boss was harder in that same raid size". I would love for method to possibly do a 10man version and give us their true, honest thoughts.
    I never said the 10m version is easier. Or harder, for that matter. Nor do I think there's much point to attempt to compare the two as totally different factors play a role depending on raid size. Moreover, while one boss might be harder another is likely to be easier, so how do you aggregate that for an entire tier?

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    I think a lot of 10m players (mostly those argue that it's 1 race iirc) feel attacked/insulted when you tell them it's 2 different races because they think their difficulty is being made fun of. This is not the case, it's just 2 totally different things.

    Also, the poll options are stupid/biased.

    10-man players have become a bit touchy as they keep being told that they're second-rate raiders raiding a second-rate format, deserving second-rate loot.

    That said, who cares how you call things? Does it change anything when you call it differently? World first is world first. No matter if it's 10-man or 25-man. That's the general thing. Then you can come and say "I want to say it in more specific terms." And you say "World first 10-man was killed by X" and "World first 25-man was killed by Y." And it's all good.

    Long story short, I don't know what the big deal about it is. Do you as a 10-man raider feel bad when the overall world first is earnt by a 25-man guild? Or do you as a 25-man raider feel bad when the overall world first is earnt by a 10-man guild?

    To be honest, we're simply arguing about semantics here.

  16. #16
    Blademaster
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    There are no comparable world firsts as long there is different gear and different lockouts in far east. And different raidsizes.
    So I don`t care about firstkills anymore.

    There are no Death and Taxes or Kungen style heroes anymore.

    But there are still guilds and single players who make great YouTube Films with really awesome gameplay. This are my new heroes!

  17. #17
    why do ppl even care?

  18. #18
    Obviously, a kill in either mode is the world first, non bugged of course.

    25 man will always have more prestige tied to it, however. Just as if there were 40 man versions, 25 man would seem less prestigious.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by yeto View Post
    why do ppl even care?
    Pretty much this.

    10 or 25 man, really does not matter. Non-fanboys have likely forgotten who got world firsts this tier, let alone all the previous tiers. It's such a non-achievement, and these players are nothing special, they just cram months of progression into days by raiding on a unsociable schedule.
    Last edited by quikbunny; 2013-04-23 at 09:27 AM.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Desaris's Avatar
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    It's different races... think of it as two different leagues maybe

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