View Poll Results: What counts in a world first kill.

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  • Any Kill on any mode

    156 74.64%
  • 25 man kill is required

    53 25.36%
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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    25 man will always have more prestige tied to it, however. Just as if there were 40 man versions, 25 man would seem less prestigious.
    To some people maybe. To others not.

    Essentially this 10 vs 25 world first debate is silly. Getting world first in either format is IMO equally impressive, but you can't really compare the two formats because they can never be perfectly equal.

    Overall there are 3 world firsts:

    a) World first 10 man boss kill.
    b) World first 25 man boss kill.
    c) World first boss kill.

    a) and b) should be considered equally difficult feats. c) is more an academic talking point more than anything else.

    Technically, I expect that the 25 man race has a higher median skill - ie less competitors, but in general those competitors are stronger. On the other hand the 10 man race has a lot more competitors - but there are a lot more weak competitors. If you looked purely at the top 100 10 and 25 guilds and compared skill though, I am not there would be a meaningful difference.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    Any kill on any mode period

    -> People glitching/getting around mechanics may not be bannable - but it's not a world first just because you were able to glitch the boss into a kill (sorry glitchers/hackers)

  3. #23
    10 and 25 are just so massively different at this point that you can't combine them. The "first kill" of a boss is meaningless if you include both - it may be interesting to look at the top 100-500 or so kills of a boss in each mode to find out which mode was "easier" for that boss (for example), but if you want to know who "won", you have to start by accepting that you're talking about two contests.

    It's kinda like having two marathons going on in two different towns that start at the same time. They're both functionally identical in form - the same length, the same basic rules, the same method of winning -- but one track may have more turns, the other may have more of an average incline over the course of the race, there may be different ground conditions, one may have more participants than the other, and so on and so on. As such, you can't just say that the person that crosses their respective finish line first won both races.

    Same thing with 10 vs 25 man raiding.

  4. #24
    WF10 and WF25 are separate.
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  5. #25
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Honestly I don't see the big deal. Most of the people watching WFs will never get them anyways and it seems like just a way to start the old "10-man isn't real raiding" nonsense. WF is WF, no matter what some no-lifer in the top guild says (14-16 hours a day? Are they all rich, disabled, or kids? No adult can do that). I stopped caring about WFs the minute I realized that it just kind of highlights how serious people take a game that's meant for enjoyment.
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  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I stopped caring about WFs the minute I realized that it just kind of highlights how serious people take a game that's meant for enjoyment.
    Some people find enjoyment that way? Like how dotalikes with metagaming became esports

  7. #27
    When you say any mode are you referring to normal/heroic and 10/25?

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    It's any kill on any mode. As blizzard has stated themselves.

    IMO however I think 25mans should go back to how they were in ICC.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    It's different races... think of it as two different leagues maybe
    Big league and little league, based on raid size

  10. #30
    World first is world first even if it's a 5man 10man or 25man kill it's world first then there is also _10man_ and _25man_ world firsts. I don't get it why it's so hard for some people to realise what is world first or not even if boss is different in 10 or 25man mode this is what I think.

  11. #31
    Since Cataclysm there are 2 World First races:

    - 25 man World First
    - 10 man World First

    both are treated equal (or should be) as achievement not as a race. They are still different races.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 01:42 PM ----------

    I think it should be called West First instead of World First since the changes in Asia. Or well people are not counting Asia as part of the world first race anymore.
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  12. #32
    easy answer, the first kill is the first kill

  13. #33
    I for one would like to see Asia/EU/America have the same days for patches and raid releases.

    As far as I am concerned 10/25 does not matter who ever kills the heroic boss first is first. Sure stick the 25man mode or 10man mode label onto it so people know what mode it was killed it. Still doesn't change the fact the boss died to x guild first.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    But why? To me a first is a first. Both are very difficult to accomplish and require a lot of skill. Why is it the general population thinks that a 10man version of a heroic is easier then a 25man version? Some of those people may never actually see the content once, let alone actually go through and do both and say "Yeah, X boss was easier in this raid size, but Y boss was harder in that same raid size". I would love for method to possibly do a 10man version and give us their true, honest thoughts.
    They wouldnt be able to...
    If you've done the boss on any format, the next one will be easier.

    You'd have to go in with the exact same people, exact same gear, then wipe their memory á la Men in black and then do the next format.
    For obvious reasons this is impossible, thus its impossible to give an unbiased opinion on the matter

    Either way, 10/25 is never tuned evenly, so its a moot point.
    Personally, i would love to see one raid size, 16 ppl. avg: 2 tanks, 4 healers, 10 dps :P

  15. #35
    Take Lei-Shen as an example, Paragon got Worlds first 10m, Method Worlds first 25m but Paragon still got Worlds First.

  16. #36
    High Overlord Aeriscats's Avatar
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    There are three things that matter. World First, World First 10 man and World First 25 man. Only two guilds can achieve any of these three things. You get world first, and either 10 or 25.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriscats View Post
    There are three things that matter. World First, World First 10 man and World First 25 man. Only two guilds can achieve any of these three things. You get world first, and either 10 or 25.
    This this and this please ppl understand it alrdy!

  18. #38
    Its very simple if you are completely unbiased.

    Whoever kills it first is the World first kill. The term "WORLD first" is unbiased and should be used as such. Looking at Ra-den;

    Method killed it first, so they got the World First
    Paragon killed it second, so they got the World Second (First 10 man)

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    WF10 and WF25 are separate.
    But they aren't.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    I don't really keep upto date with the world first type chatter.

    As a hypothetical scenario... US has reset day on Tuesday IIRC, EU Wednesday. If "Team US" then got a kill on Thursday at 8PM US server time and "Team EU" got the same kill on Friday at 7PM EU server time who would get the "world first?" o.O

    Team US killed it first.
    Team EU killed it an hour faster than Team US.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    I don't really keep upto date with the world first type chatter.

    As a hypothetical scenario... US has reset day on Tuesday IIRC, EU Wednesday. If "Team US" then got a kill on Thursday at 8PM US server time and "Team EU" got the same kill on Friday at 7PM EU server time who would get the "world first?" o.O

    Team US killed it first.
    Team EU killed it an hour faster than Team US.
    imo the scoring should be from the release of the content for the region. So if an EU guild kills a boss 8 hours after a US guild, they are 1 day behind it terms of release so they should be 16 hours in-front.

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