View Poll Results: What counts in a world first kill.

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  • Any Kill on any mode

    156 74.64%
  • 25 man kill is required

    53 25.36%
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  1. #41
    I think we should drop "World First" concept, guilds killing anything on any format can announce that they did it on this time, this format, and people based on its difficulty can get impressed as much as they want.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    Its very simple if you are completely unbiased.

    Whoever kills it first is the World first kill. The term "WORLD first" is unbiased and should be used as such. Looking at Ra-den;

    Method killed it first, so they got the World First
    Paragon killed it second, so they got the World Second (First 10 man)

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 03:38 PM ----------



    But they aren't.
    I understand what you're saying, and we're all playing the same game, but encounters are not identical in both formats, so how can they be the same, and thus ranked the same ?

  3. #43
    There is no real world first anymore since the 10/25 split of Cata are not really equal in difficulty and they never will be, theres no real level playing field anymore so you can't really claim either. It's entirely possible that if we went back to a 25 man only system or even switched to a 10 man only system the rankings would not be as the are. So meh...

    Ideally rankings need to be split into 10 and 25 on WoW progress so 10 man world first can claim that title and 25 can claim theres.

  4. #44
    As many have said there are 3 first.

    World first = The first guild in the world to kill the boss
    World first 10m = First 10 man guild in the world to kill the boss
    World first 25m = First 25 man guild in the world to kill the boss.

    As far as I know there is only one achievement from Blizz's perspective and that is World First. Blizz, the company that makes the game has /ONE/ achievement. Who killed the boss first. Period. End of story. No nonsense about 10 man or 25. Raid size is irrelevant. So stop with the stupid 10 man doesn't count because it's easier. Clearly Blizz doesn't agree. Once they do then you can have your 25m world first as well. Until then world first is world first regardless of raid size. The game creators say so and so it is so.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    A world first is when a guild kills a boss as the first in the whole world. There are 10-man world first and 25-man world first, both are their own race.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
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  6. #46
    10man and 25man should have separate achievements. I presume the overall WF for the actual kill is only what people really think about.

    If Blizzard added a Top5 achievement for the last boss in any tier, there would be no argument. So, only the first 5 guilds (whether 10 or 25) got one of those 5 places.

  7. #47
    World first is the guild that kills it first legit (meaning that Blizzard didn't take away their kill) regardless of raid size. You can argue that this is fairly meaningless based on the differences of 10 and 25 man but it still is the world first.

  8. #48
    There should be a World first 25m and a World first 10m as some bosses could be more difficult then another one depending on 10 or 25ppl

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    As many have said there are 3 first.

    World first = The first guild in the world to kill the boss
    World first 10m = First 10 man guild in the world to kill the boss
    World first 25m = First 25 man guild in the world to kill the boss.

    As far as I know there is only one achievement from Blizz's perspective and that is World First. Blizz, the company that makes the game has /ONE/ achievement. Who killed the boss first. Period. End of story. No nonsense about 10 man or 25. Raid size is irrelevant. So stop with the stupid 10 man doesn't count because it's easier. Clearly Blizz doesn't agree. Once they do then you can have your 25m world first as well. Until then world first is world first regardless of raid size. The game creators say so and so it is so.
    There is no world first achievement. Just realm firsts.

  10. #50
    You don't have a poll option for there being 2 completely separate world firsts. Nice.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    But they aren't.
    Except that they are.

    Look at it like boxing. Welterweights and heavyweights fight in the same ring, for the same amount of time, under the same rules. But there isn't a 'boxing world champion' per se, there's a WC for each weight class. Because while they're going through the same motions, they are indeed separate entities.

    WF25 and WF10 isn't a hard concept.
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  12. #52
    Obviously it's whoever releases the video first. /sarcasm
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  13. #53
    Where is the "they're separate races" choice?

  14. #54
    Your poll is missing what I consider the right answer. It's 2 separete races, one 10-man and one 25-man race. Now in MoP the tuning between the two is a lot better than it was in Cata, but it will never be perfect.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Except that they are.

    Look at it like boxing. Welterweights and heavyweights fight in the same ring, for the same amount of time, under the same rules. But there isn't a 'boxing world champion' per se, there's a WC for each weight class. Because while they're going through the same motions, they are indeed separate entities.

    WF25 and WF10 isn't a hard concept.
    Welter and Heavy have a clean definition of what they are stronger and weaker at. That's why they are split, because of the very different style of fighting. They are clearly different.

    10 and 25 does not have clear advantages or disadvantages. Some fights are better and some are worse, but this also depends on YOUR individual raid; What your comp is, who is playing what. 10 and 25 is the same game, with the same abilities. Why would you split something for almost exactly the same game?

    Your metaphor would work if when you set the raid to 25man everyone had a reduced movement speed buff but dealt more damage. But because the characters are identical its not the same thing.

  16. #56
    Imo, just look at it as being a running championship. You don't compared the times from men and woman either....

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Menno View Post
    Imo, just look at it as being a running championship. You don't compared the times from men and woman either....
    Indeed, nor do you put heavy weight boxers againts light weight boxers in the same right.

  18. #58
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    I don't see how this is even a question. World first means the first in the world to do something. Whether a 10 man guild or a 25 man guild gets a world first kill, the one who got this kill first was the world first and you can't argue that otherwise. Now you can split it and say this 10 man guild was the 10 man world first and that 25 man guild was the 25 man world first which is fine, but whichever of them actually got the kill first is, by definition, the world first.

  19. #59
    There should be 1 raid size.

  20. #60
    As others have said, this poll 's choices are terrible. To me, world first only really counts in one's respective category (World first 10-man or World first 25-man), as a perfect balance between such disparate amounts of players is nigh impossible.

    I wish Paragon could get some real competition in their bracket so they could stop getting lumped in with the 25-man guilds.

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