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  1. #1

    Rdruid "buffs" for 5.3 constructive criticism

    I want to start of saying that I´m speaking stricly out of PvE pov. Most of the buffs are aimed towards PvE. Or well they are all infact. Including the Ironbark "buff" which I will speak of in this post.

    Wild Mushroom:
    At Wild Mushrooms current state, overhealing and not being able to reposition fully stacked shrooms is the MAJOR issue.
    The current ovehealing of wildmushroom is high, adding another 100% healing wont solve anything (imo).

    So for fixing healing done by Wild Mushrooms. You could maybe take into consideration of giving Rdruids a absorb spell?
    Instead of giving us 100% increased healing. You could give a shield to everyone healed by the mushrooms. Shielding the person for 5-30% of the flat heal, or simply based on overhealing done on the poor lad who didn´t get any heals!
    Meaning that you keep the spells current healing as of 5.2, and adding the absorb effect ontop of that when 5.3 hits.

    This would make the spell a lot more apeeling. In terms of a significant "buff" overall, there is no question about absorb healing > overhealing is the best way to go, hehe.
    More healing on shrooms would be nice on some fights ofcourse. But giving a absorb instead would allow the spell to be used on every fight to it´s full potential. Not just on high peak dmg fights, (the once we excel at healing anyway).

    Shroom placement:
    In several Heroic encounters melee camp / ranged camp moves around a lot. Making it hard to get 100% stacked shrooms to go off on people, that are the once wounded / needed to be healed.
    A simple way to fix this issue. Would be to allow fully stacked shrooms to only bloom. When you hit the "bloom" key. And not when you add another shroom to the field making your fully charged one explode. Allowing you to reposisiton your fully stacked shrooms. Ergo, when you got x3 shroomies up, and use another shroom you simply reposition your current one keeping the stacks on it.

    Shrooms overall:
    There is so many ways this spell could be tweaked. Just to make it more fun / less irritating.
    It´s so demoralizing seeing your shrooms that you used x3 casts on to place finally getting fully stacked and then noticing the boss and melee camp has moved!
    So for example, placing x3 shrooms as one but giving it a full 1 sec GCD instead of 0.5 sec for each when you single pop em. Would be a cool addition.
    // If you have x3 fully stacked shrooms. Being able to manually reposition all three with a 1 sec gcd. Or single place them with each a 0.5 sec gcd. (keeping them at the % increased healing they had on em at that point of time)- and ofcourse being able to reach 100% stack even if they got moved on 50% etc.

    Ironbark:
    Ironbark cd reduced to 1 min instead of 2 mintutes. Leaving the dmg reduction still at 20%
    "PvP" Ironbark CD (4-set) increased by 1 min.
    Ergo this change is stricly aimed at PvE.

    So. Why Ironbark is laughed at in PvE is not because of it´s CD. And a 1 minute CD reduction wouldn´t make any difference really, it simply needs a higher % reduced. Not a lower CD timer.

    We are the class who lacks the most of a defensive raid CD, and we´ve always been that class.
    So I love that you are infact considering of buffing Ironbark. But I feel giving it a 20% increased -> 40% reduced dmg or even 60% with a shorter uptime. At the cost of keeping it a 2min cd / making it a 3 min CD. Would be a lot better.
    Paladins have there Devo, priests with Pain sup etc. Our dmg reduction spell is not even close. 20% is not much in PvE enviroment, not enough to be relied on as the only dmg reduction at least.

    Tranqulity, Swiftmend. Great buffs!
    Why I did not write much about these is for the simple fact that they are actually good as they are right now. Buffs are always appreciated doh! <3

    *Reason for focusing so much on Wild Mushroom, is due to the T15(4set) which screams out that blizzard wants more people to use shrooms*
    Cheers for the read!

    My nick in game is "Túbby" on Frostame-EU just to show that I´ve raided HC this tier

  2. #2
    Classes needs to stay unique, giving a another class absorbs wont solve any problems with PvE healing.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbycow View Post
    I want to start of saying that I´m speaking stricly out of PvE pov. Most of the buffs are aimed towards PvE. Or well they are all infact. Including the Ironbark "buff" which I will speak of in this post.

    Wild Mushroom:
    At Wild Mushrooms current state, overhealing and not being able to reposition fully stacked shrooms is the MAJOR issue.
    The current ovehealing of wildmushroom is high, adding another 100% healing wont solve anything (imo).

    So for fixing healing done by Wild Mushrooms. You could maybe take into consideration of giving Rdruids a absorb spell?
    Instead of giving us 100% increased healing. You could give a shield to everyone healed by the mushrooms. Shielding the person for 5-30% of the flat heal, or simply based on overhealing done on the poor lad who didn´t get any heals!
    Meaning that you keep the spells current healing as of 5.2, and adding the absorb effect ontop of that when 5.3 hits.

    This would make the spell a lot more apeeling. In terms of a significant "buff" overall, there is no question about absorb healing > overhealing is the best way to go, hehe.
    More healing on shrooms would be nice on some fights ofcourse. But giving a absorb instead would allow the spell to be used on every fight to it´s full potential. Not just on high peak dmg fights, (the once we excel at healing anyway).

    Shroom placement:
    In several Heroic encounters melee camp / ranged camp moves around a lot. Making it hard to get 100% stacked shrooms to go off on people, that are the once wounded / needed to be healed.
    A simple way to fix this issue. Would be to allow fully stacked shrooms to only bloom. When you hit the "bloom" key. And not when you add another shroom to the field making your fully charged one explode. Allowing you to reposisiton your fully stacked shrooms. Ergo, when you got x3 shroomies up, and use another shroom you simply reposition your current one keeping the stacks on it.

    Shrooms overall:
    There is so many ways this spell could be tweaked. Just to make it more fun / less irritating.
    It´s so demoralizing seeing your shrooms that you used x3 casts on to place finally getting fully stacked and then noticing the boss and melee camp has moved!
    So for example, placing x3 shrooms as one but giving it a full 1 sec GCD instead of 0.5 sec for each when you single pop em. Would be a cool addition.
    // If you have x3 fully stacked shrooms. Being able to manually reposition all three with a 1 sec gcd. Or single place them with each a 0.5 sec gcd. (keeping them at the % increased healing they had on em at that point of time)- and ofcourse being able to reach 100% stack even if they got moved on 50% etc.

    Ironbark:
    Ironbark cd reduced to 1 min instead of 2 mintutes. Leaving the dmg reduction still at 20%
    "PvP" Ironbark CD (4-set) increased by 1 min.
    Ergo this change is stricly aimed at PvE.

    So. Why Ironbark is laughed at in PvE is not because of it´s CD. And a 1 minute CD reduction wouldn´t make any difference really, it simply needs a higher % reduced. Not a lower CD timer.

    We are the class who lacks the most of a defensive raid CD, and we´ve always been that class.
    So I love that you are infact considering of buffing Ironbark. But I feel giving it a 20% increased -> 40% reduced dmg or even 60% with a shorter uptime. At the cost of keeping it a 2min cd / making it a 3 min CD. Would be a lot better.
    Paladins have there Devo, priests with Pain sup etc. Our dmg reduction spell is not even close. 20% is not much in PvE enviroment, not enough to be relied on as the only dmg reduction at least.

    Tranqulity, Swiftmend. Great buffs!
    Why I did not write much about these is for the simple fact that they are actually good as they are right now. Buffs are always appreciated doh! <3

    *Reason for focusing so much on Wild Mushroom, is due to the T15(4set) which screams out that blizzard wants more people to use shrooms*
    Cheers for the read!

    My nick in game is "Túbby" on Frostame-EU just to show that I´ve raided HC this tier
    Shrooms have a short cd. If the spell has an absorb effect it will be forced into rotation. Blizzard doesn't want that.
    As from my logs, shroom overhealing mostly come from healing full health pets(water elementals, hunter pets, snakes, ghouls..)
    So adding shields to pet doesn't really help.

    As for the placement part increasing the raduis will help. An increase of 2 yards in radius is a 50+% increase in area the shrooms cover.
    I can imagine it'll still be hard to use in movement encounters but if it's too easy it can't be healing that much.
    My strategy is to spread the shrooms to cover more area so that they would hit someone.

    For ironbark I don't think we need a tank CD. What we need is a raid CD so buff ironbark to -60% damage would help this.
    With the change in ironbark I think we should stop treating it as a "oh-crap" ability(which it never is as it's just -20% damage).
    Instead we can use it on CD or use it like barkskin

  4. #4
    We don't need more absorbs in the game. Absorbs should be nerfed (and are going to be, even if it's maybe not enough).

    What we need is more utility. Currently there is no reason to bring a resto druid when you can bring another healer with similar (or even slightly better) throughput + more utility.
    The changes to tranquility in 25 man + Ironbark are a start but they are not enough. We still have no raid damage CD (either a % damage reduction, absorbs, bonus health, whatever) or burst aoe healing.

    A few needed changes :

    -Make tranquility (and divine hymn because it shares the same issue) cast and forget like HTT
    -Change mushrooms so that you can re-position them without losing the bonus healing (with a CD if it feels overpowered)
    -Change living seed to make them proc from every crit (including hots) and stack. Make them bloom if the target drop below 70% health. Slightly reduce hot strength so that our throughput stay the same.

  5. #5
    It baffles me to see that people think a tier bonus that affects Rejuvenation, the bread and butter spell for Restoration Druids for a long time, is somehow actually aimed at Wild Mushrooms, which is a new and situational tool.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DetectiveJohnKimble View Post
    It baffles me to see that people think a tier bonus that affects Rejuvenation, the bread and butter spell for Restoration Druids for a long time, is somehow actually aimed at Wild Mushrooms, which is a new and situational tool.
    Because it is. Rejuv is what charges wild mushroom. Rejuv has a high amount of overheal. Mushrooms were modified to help with overheal. Tier bonus makes rejuv heal more. Therefore tier bonus charges mushrooms faster as an added benefit when it overheals which is basically 90% of the time depending on your group. Thus we can conclude tier bonus is aimed at making mushrooms slightly less sucky.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Because it is. Rejuv is what charges wild mushroom. Rejuv has a high amount of overheal. Mushrooms were modified to help with overheal. Tier bonus makes rejuv heal more. Therefore tier bonus charges mushrooms faster as an added benefit when it overheals which is basically 90% of the time depending on your group. Thus we can conclude tier bonus is aimed at making mushrooms slightly less sucky.
    Maybe the tier bonus is actually aimed at making our highest healing, most frequently used spell stronger? Or is that being too logical? Even with "90% overheal" (lol), rejuv itself is our highest heal. Mushroom is not, and is at best our 2nd highest on certain normal mode fights like tortos (of course, its usually much lower). That's why it's funny to see people claim that the tier bonus, which directly affects the healing done by our most important, highest heal spell, is actually for a situational spell.

    People are getting very focused on another spell related to rejuv, and somehow ignore the fundamentals of playing resto Druid. Sure, the bonus may be partly related to that (although i believe tier bonuses were out before GC announced the mushroom change, maybe not though), but it isnt the real underlying purpose. If you're in a situation where burst damage is going out that frequently, chances are rejuv, and the tier bonus, is going to be pretty strong too. Mushrooms already charge fast enough as it is for the many boss mechanics that they're useful for. It's not like lei shen is throwing out thunderstruck every 10 seconds and doing no damage in between.
    Last edited by DetectiveJohnKimble; 2013-04-23 at 01:57 PM.

  8. #8
    Aye, but I still think allowing you to move shrooms without losing the stored overhealing would be great change and make it a much less punishing ability. Heck even if they did it where moving shrooms causes them to lose 50% of their stored overhealing would be an improvement.

    The aoe changes are nice, the tranq 25 man change will be helpful, the ironbark change is a little underwhelming, wasn't expecting it and will prolly try to use it more rotationally and less as an emergency cd.

    Its a step in the right direction. They need to tweak living seed as well, such a poorly implemented mechanic.

  9. #9
    The Patient Tovart's Avatar
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    The changes arent what we are actually looking for though -_- They wont change a damn thing. Until they fix other classes mechanics and make our actual spells a little more usable (Healing touch nourish etc etc) this may as well be just a joke. It comes to no surprise that we are looking at yet another band aid change which isnt going to help in the long run.

    The tranquility change still isnt addressing the main issue with it that it needs to be channeled unless you have a shaman to symbiosis you have to stand there like a prize plonker channeling the spell.
    Also really wish they'd just either fix mushrooms properly or do away with them honestly you could buff these things to be 3000% more strong and they'd still get ignored cause they take to long to grow all 3 and then requires another gcd to use them. To top it all off they have a crap radius that only like 2 fights in the current tier make any real use of.

    As for the changes to Ironbark... well... do I need to actually go on to why this is stupid? The reason it sucks is all cause of god damn pvp as usual. Wish they'd just say "Is only 20% in pvp but is say 40% in pve" 20% pfft gimme a break my alt enhancement shaman has a better damage reduction then this one a shorter cd wtf?

    Edit: I just realised its not even a druid buff its a "everyone" buff Priests divine hymn now heals 12 people up from 5 too. So technically all we are getting is the random shroom "Buff" and that thing they like to call a raid cd "buff".
    Last edited by Tovart; 2013-04-23 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Extra info.
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  10. #10
    I think Blizzard needs to get rid of absorbs completely, which won't happen but they need to be nerfed by about 50%. A few percent isn't going to change things. We certainly don't need more absorbs in the game. The problem is they have now balanced encounters around massively OP absorbs so toning them down to a reasonable level would make some encounters very hard. I know I've been in several pugs that couldn't kill the boss until we brought in an absorb healer and then it became trivial. There is a reason guilds are always recruiting absorb healers and pugs only want absorb healers. Unfortunately I don't think this issue will ever be adequately addressed in this expansion. Encounters are tuned well in advance and then there is the ever annoying PvP balance to worry about.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tovart View Post
    The changes arent what we are actually looking for though -_- They wont change a damn thing. Until they fix other classes mechanics and make our actual spells a little more usable (Healing touch nourish etc etc) this may as well be just a joke. It comes to no surprise that we are looking at yet another band aid change which isnt going to help in the long run.

    The tranquility change still isnt addressing the main issue with it that it needs to be channeled unless you have a shaman to symbiosis you have to stand there like a prize plonker channeling the spell.
    Also really wish they'd just either fix mushrooms properly or do away with them honestly you could buff these things to be 3000% more strong and they'd still get ignored cause they take to long to grow all 3 and then requires another gcd to use them. To top it all off they have a crap radius that only like 2 fights in the current tier make any real use of.

    As for the changes to Ironbark... well... do I need to actually go on to why this is stupid? The reason it sucks is all cause of god damn pvp as usual. Wish they'd just say "Is only 20% in pvp but is say 40% in pve" 20% pfft gimme a break my alt enhancement shaman has a better damage reduction then this one a shorter cd wtf?

    Edit: I just realised its not even a druid buff its a "everyone" buff Priests divine hymn now heals 12 people up from 5 too. So technically all we are getting is the random shroom "Buff" and that thing they like to call a raid cd "buff".
    These types of posts make me feel bad for blizzard. While these buffs dont eliminate the core issue of absorbs taking priority over heals, they do help with some of our issues and alot of things people have been complaining about. Specifically, swiftmends increased radius comes to mind. They are also increasing the radius on shrooms, so that should help with one of your gripes.

    The core issue of absorbs/heals is going to be corrected by nerfing absorbs, which they are doing signficantly. Its not going to be buffs to druids that take care of it. I dont want druids to have absorbs, thats not what we do.

    Now to some of your points. If shrooms were increased 3000%, we would be the best healers ever. They would hardly even have to be charged to heal everyone up to full. All we would do as resto druids would be to place shrooms, keep a few rejuvs rolling to load them up, and heal everyone instantly to full health. rinse repeat. so what a silly comment. 100% increase will help. they dont want them to become part of our rotation.

    And people have provided great insight previously to fights where using shrooms can be helpful. I think there were only 2 or 3 were shrooms didnt help. So saying they are only helpful on two fights is ignorant.

    Your points and concerns wont be taken seriously with this kind of raging involved.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Aye, but I still think allowing you to move shrooms without losing the stored overhealing would be great change and make it a much less punishing ability. Heck even if they did it where moving shrooms causes them to lose 50% of their stored overhealing would be an improvement.

    The aoe changes are nice, the tranq 25 man change will be helpful, the ironbark change is a little underwhelming, wasn't expecting it and will prolly try to use it more rotationally and less as an emergency cd.

    Its a step in the right direction. They need to tweak living seed as well, such a poorly implemented mechanic.
    The one really smart thing I read out of this whole thread. If used in a very forceful and wasteful way you can use seed healing on the tank to stay higher up on the meter especially if you aren't facing absorb healers. I love doing it on boring content to piss off our resto shaman. If burning seed acted like a tortos shield(not the absorb but gathered the over healing and added some to the bloom). I use a lot of ooc regrowth procs during fight down time for the seed and for the refresh on lb and our healing style is just incredibly wasteful. We don't need any big healing buffs because like we saw last patch they really don't do that much when the raid already has absorbs on them.

  13. #13
    I'd love for shrooms to be placed with one Global, even above the increased healing, and not lose their charge.

  14. #14
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    Since the issue seems to be the positioning of shrooms, and I just started using them and it was the first thing I noticed (druid was retired for a monk...) I'd like to see us plant shrooms in a central location. The shrooms release spores as over heals are absorbed and make them smart heal that attach to players and "bloom" when the target number is reached. Kind of a cross between WG and Healing well. Least fun in theory, I'd like to see people running around with mushrooms blooming on that expensive armor :P

  15. #15
    So for fixing healing done by Wild Mushrooms. You could maybe take into consideration of giving Rdruids a absorb spell?
    Well thats not the solution Overpowered Absorbs Just Makes the game unbalance for other healers.
    We are the raw HPS class we should get some thing to increase our performance but not in the way of absorbs.

    as bllizard mention that they dont want our shrooms to be a part of rotation but as they are buffing the shrooms in every patch they are making it mandatory for our rotation but we still have the same porblem 3 gcd and charging the shroom and no one is there to get the healing from shrooms. there is like more than thousand ways to change the how the shrooms works one thing whcih Jaysla mention on cannotbetamed the instead of placing it on the ground make the mechanic of them shroom that traget will be injected by shroom seed and they absorb the reju overheal and we can bloom them when they are charged that kind of mechanic is considerable but there will be a pvp part of the game where this mechanic will be overpowered so for that in game we have that kind of technology where u can reduce the healing of the shroom in pvp pov for example current meta wont proc much on pvp, vengence didnt work in pvp, CC timer reduce so we have this kind of technology where we can change the result of ability in pvp aspect of game.


    Ironbark:
    Ironbark cd reduced to 1 min instead of 2 mintutes. Leaving the dmg reduction still at 20%
    "PvP" Ironbark CD (4-set) increased by 1 min.
    Ergo this change is stricly aimed at PvE.
    Well as ironbark in my opinion is worst cd in a simple lang Druids are asking some tank CD and in MoP Blizz Dev team throw us a bone in way of ironbark compare to other healer our cd is kinda useless as for genreally Tanks ask's for CD when they are in danger and when healer saw him in danger he/she uses the tank cd and prevent the death and then heal the tank but as for druid tank got hard hit by boss remaining HP for exampleis 150K and we pet Ironbark and again hit by like 200K from boss it is still 10K over kill.

    as for tranq our problem is very unique or Off Spec Heal Boomkin Heals almost double in tranq with heart of wild take ele shaman healing tide heals less than resto shaman Healing tide.

    Int he last SM is a nice buff alone with increase the range on SM will not fix our problem i hope blizzard will actually consider is to be on charts again but as Treesus says

    druid was retired for a monk...
    is the truth they announce the the class with same niche as druid and forget about us

    and one thing i like to mention the biggest lie fromt he blizzard is bring the player not the class is the Fat huge and enormous LIE

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Druover View Post
    These types of posts make me feel bad for blizzard. While these buffs dont eliminate the core issue of absorbs taking priority over heals, they do help with some of our issues and alot of things people have been complaining about. Specifically, swiftmends increased radius comes to mind. They are also increasing the radius on shrooms, so that should help with one of your gripes.

    The core issue of absorbs/heals is going to be corrected by nerfing absorbs, which they are doing signficantly. Its not going to be buffs to druids that take care of it. I dont want druids to have absorbs, thats not what we do.

    Now to some of your points. If shrooms were increased 3000%, we would be the best healers ever. They would hardly even have to be charged to heal everyone up to full. All we would do as resto druids would be to place shrooms, keep a few rejuvs rolling to load them up, and heal everyone instantly to full health. rinse repeat. so what a silly comment. 100% increase will help. they dont want them to become part of our rotation.

    And people have provided great insight previously to fights where using shrooms can be helpful. I think there were only 2 or 3 were shrooms didnt help. So saying they are only helpful on two fights is ignorant.

    Your points and concerns wont be taken seriously with this kind of raging involved.
    Are you kidding me? Are you really taking something I said as an exaggeration and making it real? Lol Then you have the cheek to have a go at me lol.
    The fact is Mushrooms take ages to charge have a small radius and cant be moved without losing all your healing contained lol I seriously cannot believe people actually take exactly what you say and turn it into a weapon.

    Also for saying there really useful in lots of fights? lol All we ask for is the same thing every patch and its getting old asking for the same thing every patch and being ignored. So "raging" like this isnt going to change the fact that they dont listen to us anyway. They change overworked mechanics with bandaids trying so hard to fix something with such an easy solution with the most complicated answer ever.
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  17. #17
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    I've been playing since release, and I've always had the luck of being on the downward slope of a classes popularity/power (except WOTLK Druid :P) Druid's will be fixed, but denying that it isn't an issue is silly. Blizz woudn't be nerfing absorbs and trying to find a way to buff us without going to 9000 if there wasn't an issue or under representation that they were aware of.

    druid was retired for a monk...
    is the truth they announce the the class with same niche as druid and forget about us

    and one thing i like to mention the biggest lie fromt he blizzard is bring the player not the class is the Fat huge and enormous LIE
    Hate to admit it as I love my druid, but Monk is alot more fluid than tree is. They aren't without their own issues being the same niche we are but right now they have more utility which makes us last. I just hope they balance everything for everyone. Unlike some masochist on these forums, I don't think any class should be on the bottom for others to succeed. But hey I'm glad my job isn't balancing everything on a razor's edge.

  18. #18
    Entire concept of absorption i hate it .

    This expansion most of time guild this entire expansion i was forced to go boomkin as holypala / Disc priest can handle raid with their OP absorb .

    We are currently at worst position in terms of healing .

    I want blizzard to make Living seed buff and work with every spell also also on Non-crit .

    I don't enjoy the concept of mushroom healing or change the mechanics of the spell like :

    U place mushroom Aoe on the floor and they grow after 10seconds and u can pop them later .

  19. #19
    I agree with the "rethink absorbs" idea. Why wont they scale with the amount of hp target has? IE target is in full hp the absorb has only little effect, but when at low hp, the absorb would effect full. That way it would require absorb handing classes tothink more how they cast them...

  20. #20
    Keeping with the spirit of druid healing (Heal over time spells) Why not add a HoT aspect to Wild Mushrooms. Keep the direct heals so we have some AoE burst healing, but channel any overhealing from the pooled healing into a HoT. Then adjust the length, ticking speed, healing amount of the HoT as needed.

    I would like to see something else that would benefit from all the overhealing we do, it's unavoidable and I think we need something else that addresses it (other than a situational, immobile AoE heal)

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