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  1. #1
    The Patient Aoremas's Avatar
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    Bring back Shadowstep to sub PvP

    Hey guys, I'm sure you've all acclimated to using Cloak and Dagger by now, and as great as it is when combined with subterfuge, I really miss having the on the fly utility of SS. However, it's pretty clear that Cloak is superior in almost every way atm, so provide your ideas on how to bring it back reasonably

    My thoughts:
    Warriors: Charge 12 seconds (causes short stuns)
    Mages: Blink 15 seconds (breaks stuns)
    Monks: Roll 16 seconds x 2 (x3 talented)
    Rogues: Shadowstep 24 seconds

    When compared to the movement of other classes, it's very clear that the ability is lackluster. In today's game of 5.2, CaD trivializes SS.

    My simple solution (maybe not best idea) but simply make SS a 15 second CD. Thoughts? Opinions? Better ideas? Please share.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoremas View Post
    However, it's pretty clear that Cloak is superior in almost every way atm
    That's a sweeping statement. Whilst cloak and dagger is a pretty decent talent, when you are shadow dancing you mostly have the opponent locked down and movement is kept to a minimum.

    Shadowstep, despite a lengthy cooldown, allows for better uptime between dances. It's swings and roundabouts and there's no clear cut winner, though I would say burst of speed wins for me regardless with it's modest energy cost.

  3. #3
    I think the other difference, from what I've read, is that Shadow Step can be used on your team mates as well - although generally i'd imagine if you're using it on your team mates its because they're in trouble so using CaS would work just as well to CS the person harassing your team mate?

  4. #4
    Cloak and Dagger + Shadowdance work amazing together. Not many comp's in arena train a rogue, but when they do, shadowstep is invaluable. ( I feel anyway )

  5. #5
    They're pretty equal. Shadow step is better for damage and survivability, cnd is better for control and staying on target during dance. Only reason cnd seems so much better is because the meta game right now is "pop CDs and blow something up" and cnd ensures you'll get something out of your dance.

  6. #6
    The Patient Aoremas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    They're pretty equal. Shadow step is better for damage and survivability, cnd is better for control and staying on target during dance. Only reason cnd seems so much better is because the meta game right now is "pop CDs and blow something up" and cnd ensures you'll get something out of your dance.
    So it seems like many of you seem to disagree, but what do you think of lowering the CD on SS? Fair at this point? I'd also be interested in hearing people's level of PvP play as that knowledge and experience is a much different factor when sharing PvP opinions.

  7. #7
    I feel like shadowstep is still viable, even though cloak and dagger is a great talent. The fact you can use shadowstep on friendly targets alone makes it great for getting out of nasty situations.

    In most fights where there is a high chance you have to get away from enemies to prevent getting anihalated I usually still pick shadowstep.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal
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    C&D has saved me more often than a friendly Sstep. Also C&D's mobility is leaps and bounds better. More than once in RBG / Arena I could Garotte / Cheap my way across the field.

    Shadowstep is still nice but the control C&D brings is way better. Everyone has their preference but I think it's mostly Shadowstep nostalgia talking

  9. #9
    The Patient Aoremas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
    C&D has saved me more often than a friendly Sstep. Also C&D's mobility is leaps and bounds better. More than once in RBG / Arena I could Garotte / Cheap my way across the field.

    Shadowstep is still nice but the control C&D brings is way better. Everyone has their preference but I think it's mostly Shadowstep nostalgia talking
    This is exactly my point. CaD is far better right now, and burst of speed has always been a joke for high end PvP (those who say otherwise link your character armory with arena rating). If Bliz truly wants there to be an option or to not have cookie cutter builds, a change needs to be made. 24 seconds is simply too unforgiving in todays game.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MiLLeR View Post
    Cloak and Dagger + Shadowdance work amazing together.
    They are in the one talent tier.

    My proposition: After using shadowstep you next ability deal +15% more damage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    They are in the one talent tier.

    My proposition: After using shadowstep you next ability deal +15% more damage.
    Shadowdance is a spell in subtlety. Shadowstep and cloak+dagger are tier talents

  12. #12
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    To be honest, shadowstep can beat CaD if you play it to its max. But yeah, a 15 second cooldown would be suitable considering the power of CaD. Either that, or allow double usage before ever initializing a cooldown.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    To be honest, shadowstep can beat CaD if you play it to its max. But yeah, a 15 second cooldown would be suitable considering the power of CaD. Either that, or allow double usage before ever initializing a cooldown.
    Shadowstep in its current form (24s) simply doesn't trump C&D. With the amount of restealths, dances and vanishes available it's almost silly to choose Step right now. Even for defensive reasons.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
    Shadowstep in its current form (24s) simply doesn't trump C&D. With the amount of restealths, dances and vanishes available it's almost silly to choose Step right now. Even for defensive reasons.
    I'm not going into an argument with you. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, and that's the end of it.

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  15. #15
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    I'm not going into an argument with you. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, and that's the end of it.
    Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

    Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.
    Just a few examples of typical conservatives. Read at your own risk:
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    Totally cool with abortion in rape scenarios, but making it widely available or expecting employers to provide it incentivizes women to whore themselves out and creates a nuisance
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

    Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.
    Vanish is on a 2 min CD, ignoring prep, and SD on a 1 min CD. It's not a great deal in between these times. Shadowstep provides the consistency, which is why it isn't bad but I do agree it needs a shorter cooldown.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    Vanish is on a 2 min CD, ignoring prep, and SD on a 1 min CD. It's not a great deal in between these times. Shadowstep provides the consistency, which is why it isn't bad but I do agree it needs a shorter cooldown.
    I agree. I didn't mean to say that the mechanic itself was broken, only that it needs a shorter cooldown to actually appeal to more than the 10% of the pvp population who is using it instead of CaD.
    Just a few examples of typical conservatives. Read at your own risk:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Totally cool with abortion in rape scenarios, but making it widely available or expecting employers to provide it incentivizes women to whore themselves out and creates a nuisance
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The reason many people are poor is because they DONT save any spare money they have. They blow it on things to entertain them or make them happy

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoremas View Post
    So it seems like many of you seem to disagree, but what do you think of lowering the CD on SS? Fair at this point? I'd also be interested in hearing people's level of PvP play as that knowledge and experience is a much different factor when sharing PvP opinions.
    Even if shadowstep was like a 10s CD I doubt most people would take it over CnD right now. It's just the way the game is right now: either beat the other team when you dance or you lose.

    You don't NEED CnD to kill people in a dance though so I think it's balanced as is. Better players can take step, the majority use CnD.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 06:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

    Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.
    The situations that favor shadowstep should be pretty obvious: defensively and uptime on a target. Defensively, CnD isn't that useful because you need to either have dance up or be stealthed to even use it. You can still use dance defensively even without CnD, and obviously if you're stealthed you aren't in immediate danger. For overall uptime, it should be obvious that a gap closer you can use 2.5 times a minute is better than one you can only use once per minute (all rogues can use vanish as a gap closer so I'm not counting it in CnD's favor).

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Shadowstep: 18s Cooldown, Removes all snares and root effects, and increases movement speed by 70% for 4 seconds.
    ___

    This is the Burning Crusade Shadowstep with 2 seconds taken off it's cooldown to account for today's metagame.
    ___

    Cloak and Dagger is better control + more reliability for burst, it is superior, you can shut down an entire team for as long as you're dancing or in Subterfuge.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    They are in the one talent tier.

    My proposition: After using shadowstep you next ability deal +15% more damage.
    lolwut? Dance is not a talent.

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