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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    ... ...What?!
    Apparently I was "spamming" you on that, when I wasn't. What part of TBC was bad to you? Just curious is all.

  2. #22
    The Patient Nario64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Dailies and quests are playing the game, just as much as dungeons are. Both are every bit as repetitive and static.
    The difference is the group dynamic. In 5 mans you had your tank, your healer and 3 dps. You could work together to achieve the goal. That's what I look for in an MMO. Multiplayer experiences.

  3. #23
    I'll return at the start of each expansion to level and see that content. But aside from that, the only thing that'd make me play again would be if the game went free to play. I'm done paying a subscription for a game that isn't any better than ones I can play without one.

  4. #24
    The Patient Nario64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    I miss the challenge, the non linear dungeons and raids, and hell, even the trash. Trash makes it feel like I'm actually doing something, not just going from one room to the next where the next boss is standing.
    I agree 100% on trash. I LOVED trash. I was our guild Trash Raid Lead :P. I was in charge of moving to the next group of trash and marking them up before the last group was done. I would assign kill orders and assign tanks to their targets. I would also do the initial pull to make sure we didn't pull other trash or a specific single mob at a time (Hunter was my main). I loved it, and it let the raid leader figure out the strat for the next boss while we all dealt with trash. And I loved it when we actually had to CC things and focus others.

  5. #25
    To the overzealous people thinking I'm hiding double-entedres in my original post and want it back to pre-BC mode (we call it pre-BC, not vanilla), I do not, I merely mentioned 8 years because that's how long I thought the game had lasted, so I'll say now, 8 years and 5 months, since you're that anal about it.

    The system is a fossil whether you go back to pre-BC or WOTLK, it needs an overhaul either way.

    If you weren't so busy trying to find secret meanings in my posts for Dan Brown's next book you'd realize it was a simple question.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    To the overzealous people thinking I'm hiding double-entedres in my original post and want it back to pre-BC mode (we call it pre-BC, not vanilla), I do not, I merely mentioned 8 years because that's how long I thought the game had lasted, so I'll say now, 8 years and 5 months, since you're that anal about it.

    The system is a fossil whether you go back to pre-BC or WOTLK, it needs an overhaul either way.

    If you weren't so busy trying to find secret meanings in my posts for Dan Brown's next book you'd realize it was a simple question.
    How is it a fossil? All of the classes have changed significantly from their classic, BC, and even wrath days. We don't even have talent trees any more. Passives are rolled into the specs, which are clearly defined with roles now. That's just on characters. We're not talking graphics enhancements and changes to end-game play that have happened over the years.

    The core mechanics of an MMO haven't changed, and that's good because then it wouldn't be World of Warcraft. But you can't compare this game to any point in the past and say "nothing has changed".



  7. #27
    The Patient Nario64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    (we call it pre-BC, not vanilla)
    Who is "we" and why do you (or them) feel we're not entitled to call it vanilla?

  8. #28
    When content appeals to me, I come back. This expansion the content has appealed to me from the start. Last expansion the content didn't appeal to me until 4.3. In Wrath I unsubbed shortly after Ulduar because despite it's current status as "bestest raid evahhhhh!" it was extremely dull at the time. I came back for ICC and then unsubbed shortly after we'd finished it.

    I may sit out 5.3 and return for 5.4.

    If WoW went F2P I'd pretty much never touch it again. If WoW went back to the "core values" of vanilla I'd likely never play it again either as the time commitment to do well in Vanilla was pretty insane.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Howard Moon's Avatar
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    I might come visit if/when WoW becomes F2P. But I can't imagine any expansion making me come back to paying a sub fee (Unsubbed during Cata, didn't buy MoP).
    My Gaming Setup | WoW Holy Paladin (retired)

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  10. #30
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Furthermore, if you're going to keep saying it "needs an overhaul", how about you explain what you're talking about? Otherwise those of us trying to "find Dan Brown's next book" are going to keep thinking you have nothing really to say and are just trying to stir up trouble.



  11. #31
    Mechagnome calmsea's Avatar
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    I've quit on an off A LOT since Cataclysm launched. My interest in WoW is connected primarily to the aesthetics of whatever the current expansion happens to be and if I have friends and/or a solid group of people I typically play with. BC provided the aesthetics in spades, and I was brand new to the game so everything was awesome. I didn't raid during that era, but I had a couple friends who played. Midway through Wrath is when I got much more serious about the game and on top of the amazing aesthetic and epic scale of the storyline, I had many friends who played and formed a tight knit 10 man guild with some solid guys. That was when I really "fell in love" with WoW. The guild sadly fell apart around the end of Wrath and I played Cata on an off but never bothered to get into raiding. The aesthetics and storyline did almost nothing for me, but it was tolerable. Most of my friends had stopped playing by that time. I resubbed a week or so after MoP launched and immediately lost interest (didn't even play through the month or level to 90). The lack of people I knew and my disinterest in the aesthetic was what caused me to let the sub lapse yet again. Currently I am subbed and trying to regain interest in the game by leveling a brand new character and a new server. I have loved WoW in the past, and would really like if I could get back into it, but I'm already not finding much time or ambition to log in.

    tl;dr
    I would not resub if it was F2P. I haven't had any luck with those games. Personal interaction with good friends or at least a cool group of raiders and game/story aesthetics are the primary things that make me want to play.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaja View Post
    Normals modes are pretty much don't stand in fire, attack boss, collect loot. How much easier do you want it to be? The fact that there is normal and heroic mode irritates me. I prefer the BC model with proper Linear Tiers of difficulty.
    Ghostcrawler on twitter reacted somewhat positively to the suggestion of a "beer league" mode for casual guilds. Slightly more difficult than LFR, but less difficult than current normal mode.

    If I had to guess, it would be added as a non-LFR 10 man mode with the same rewards (and per-boss loot lockout) as LFR.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  13. #33
    IT WAS JUST A QUESTION.

    YOU'RE THE ONES WHO STARTED WITH HOSTILE TONES.

    YOU'RE THE ONES STIRRING UP TROUBLE.

    I mentioned OVERHAUL referring to the endgame content specifically - NOT to the talents, NOT to the graphics, NOT to the classes. That is NOT content that makes people come back to a game. As for "not being World of Warcraft", World of Warcraft is World of Warcraft because of the WARCRAFT part and its backstory, not because of its daily quests and LFR.

    World of Warcraft will always be World of Warcraft regardless of whether you give it dynamic missions instead of quests or dynamic AI instead of static. World of Warcraft was never a standard to begin with it just took Everquest and added quests after early beta testers determined that the leveling system was identical to EQ (grinding mobs).

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Drfireburns View Post
    Apparently I was "spamming" you on that, when I wasn't. What part of TBC was bad to you? Just curious is all.
    It's not so much that TBC was bad, but more so that the game has greatly improved since then.

    For example, nobody looks back fondly on the raid model of separate 10m and 25m raids. Also, back then raids were hard. Now raids can be done in joke mode (LFG), easy mode (normal), or hard mode (heroic). And if you ask serious raiders in progression raiding guilds or world-first guilds, or if you do these heroic raids yourself, you'll see they're much harder than in TBC. So the game now offers more options: for the bad players, the good players, and the absolute best players.

    TBC was also the era of welfare epics because raids were hard and arena gear was easy to get. It was also plagued with severely overpowered classes in PvP, such as resto druids, SL/SL warlocks, frost mages, and rogues.

    It was also before the buff/debuff homogenization. So if no shaman was online for Heroism, your raid was over. Moreover, the lack of a catchup mechanism in raiding gear, meant that mid-tier raiding guilds were essentially training grounds for the top guilds on the server. Guild poaching was rampant, and the fact that the most geared players were poached made it hard on mid-tier raiding guilds to keep a stable roster or even keep the guild together.

    Isn't it obvious? The problems of classic and TBC are well-documented and talked about.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-04-24 at 04:04 PM.

  15. #35
    reason i quit was quite simple. my guild fell apart, and my server was sucking canal water. my interest in wow was raiding, and without it it just felt like pointless grind to me. i also dont care for running with randoms any more, prefer to run with people i know/like. server transfer simply wasnt worth the money for me, and i didnt want to reroll. basically, i was where i wanted to be, then lost it, and not interested in starting over or shelling out money to hope at a better situation
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaja View Post
    Normals modes are pretty much don't stand in fire, attack boss, collect loot. How much easier do you want it to be? The fact that there is normal and heroic mode irritates me. I prefer the BC model with proper Linear Tiers of difficulty.
    This. 100 times. Raids are raids.. the difficulty of a fight should be determined by which boss you're on, not which boss on which difficulty setting. I hated when they changed all raids to 10 and 25 man versions. I hated it even more when they decided to have heroic versions of each raid size. And then I just shook my head in disgust when LFR was added as a separate difficulty. Blizzard doesn't cater to "casuals" or whatever you want to call it. They cater to idiots and those who just aren't good at the game. The proof is in how easy they make the majority of the game besides heroic raids. Heroic dungeons are even a joke. They have been since wrath. As far as raiding and dungeons go, BC was perfect in every way except 1: Karazhan being the entry raid at 10 man, while all following raids we 25 man. This caused way too many problems.

    The game is about challenges, not about getting free loot. I quit wow because I no longer had the time to invest into the best challenges.. and I'm cool with that. Thats life and I moved on. But I fully support the game remaining very tough and only those who have the time to devote to hardcore raiding achieving the very highest rewards. Those who complain, go play something else.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprophecy2186 View Post
    This. 100 times. Raids are raids.. the difficulty of a fight should be determined by which boss you're on, not which boss on which difficulty setting. I hated when they changed all raids to 10 and 25 man versions. I hated it even more when they decided to have heroic versions of each raid size. And then I just shook my head in disgust when LFR was added as a separate difficulty. Blizzard doesn't cater to "casuals" or whatever you want to call it. They cater to idiots and those who just aren't good at the game. The proof is in how easy they make the majority of the game besides heroic raids. Heroic dungeons are even a joke. They have been since wrath. As far as raiding and dungeons go, BC was perfect in every way except 1: Karazhan being the entry raid at 10 man, while all following raids we 25 man. This caused way too many problems.

    The game is about challenges, not about getting free loot. I quit wow because I no longer had the time to invest into the best challenges.. and I'm cool with that. Thats life and I moved on. But I fully support the game remaining very tough and only those who have the time to devote to hardcore raiding achieving the very highest rewards. Those who complain, go play something else.
    Newsflash. Only heroic raiders can get the best rewards because the best rewards drop in heroic raids.

    They've raised the floor, they haven't lowered the ceiling. In fact, the game is as hard as ever, so they've raised the ceiling too.

    So you support arbitrarily locking guilds out of raid content just because of raid size. For example, let's make Firelands 25m, Hour of Twilight 10m, Mogu'shan Vaults 25m, Heart of Fear 10m, Terrace 25m, and Throne of Thunder 10m. Why? Well, just because.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-04-24 at 04:19 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Newsflash. Only heroic raiders can get the best rewards because the best rewards drop in heroic raids.

    They've raised the floor, they haven't lowered the ceiling. In fact, the game is as hard as ever, so they've raised the ceiling too.

    So you support arbitrarily locking guilds out of raid content just because of raid size. For example, let's make Firelands 25m, Hour of Twilight 10m, Mogu'shan Vaults 25m, Heart of Fear 10m, Terrace 25m, and Throne of Thunder 10m. Why? Well, just because.
    Raised the floor? Hardly. If anything they've lowered it, whether or not they've kept the ceiling a the same height or not. In trying to get more players to see content, they made everything super easy, especially with heroic dungeons and LFR.. those are my biggest issues. Normal and heroic I could live with, because I see the merit. The others are just dumb.

    And no, you misread my post. I don't support going from one size to the next.. I said that was my only problem with BC. All raids should be ONE size. Kara should have been 25, or all following raids should have been 10.. I don't care which, you just need to choose.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    But this is EXACTLY how it has been since Vanilla, it is the very nature of RPGs.
    Fixed that for you - theres a reason RPGs are called hack'n'slash....

  20. #40
    I have some requirments, that should be met, in order to bring me back to game. Without meeting this requirments, this game will not be interesting for me, even if it will be F2P.
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