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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    The Warcraft games that have these "core values" that you seem to cherish DO NOT EXIST.

    Blizzard's writing really, really isn't that good. And for you to ascribe to them such a thing as "consistent writing" only confirms you wearing the thickest nostalgia goggles known to man. Every single installment in the Warcraft franchise brought with it retcons. And all the other complements you lauded on them are only really applicable to Warcraft 3 since none of the earlier installments had ANY DIALOGUE OR CHARACTERS TO SPEAK OF. Oh, there were hero units. They're just not worth mentioning since everything they did was retconned in the next game.

    I love Warcraft, but I'm not blind to its problems. To think that World of Warcraft was what came along and changed things it to confirm you just plain weren't paying attention. They were great games, some of the greatest RTS games to grace the whole world. But the writing just plain isn't that great. I love it, but it's not great.

    But, hey, lets not forget you're yet another in the long line of people who thinks world PVP was this awesome and wonderful thing and not really the bile spewing bitch fests that ground low level questing to a halt all the people who were actually there and didn't take pleasure in griefing others know it to be. I'd like to know what exactly makes you think zerging a town and then running away before the elite guards respawned and steamrolled everyone captured "core Warcraft values".

    And, on top of all this, I'd like to know why you're here bitching about this in 2013. You're really, REALLY late with the kind of things you're complaining about.
    - You're right, Blizzard's writing isn't that good. It used to be. As a person who doesn't consider 50 shades of Fail as a literary classic masterpiece and Kanaak's "fantasy" books as memorable canon lore, not that I consider it lore in the first place, I can tell the difference between hardcore GOOD shit and your run-of-the-mill high school quality writing. Blizzard's shit used to be top notch jaw dropping. I didn't believe my eyes when I picked up the Warcraft 3 game manual and started reading about Azshara and all that. Starcraft 1, Diablo 1, 2, Warcraft 1, 2, 3, all top notch shit.
    Retcons appeared gradually, but hearing you say it you'd think they went between Dark Portal and Stargate SG1. They didn't. When I mention dialogue I refer to top notch dialogue across the board of all Blizzard's games, which used to be written by the same people. Ever since BC and later Blizzard games in-game dialogue/quest-based dialogue in WoW reflects poor quality writing, with some exceptions, mostly in WOTLK, and at the worst, see farts of crapdaria and Cacaclysm.

    - I never claimed WoW came along and changed things irrevocably. I won't continue this argument based on the fact that it's troll bait and pure invention of your own deluded mind.

    - Warcraft is a world of pain and fear. Everything always goes wrong all the time. Living on a PVP server allowed you to grow in that fear, and PVE server to a very minor extent. PVP was wonderful and awesome. Ask an old school PVP or PVE player some of her/his fondest moments of WoW group play they'll mention Xroads and city raids. Maybe not you cause you're one of those "eeek my quest giver died my perfect safe fantasy world is ruined". Sorry pal, that's WARcraft, and it's because Blizzard listened/listens to people like you that this game is progressively going to shit every expansion. Crossroads/SS wasn't about zerging towns NPCs, it was about drawing the opposing factions to fight you. But you wouldn't know shit about that you've probably never even experienced it and just read about it on WoWwikki. Hell, you even said it, you would go to Crossroads to kill NPCs instead of fighting players, what more proof do I need?

    - People who tell me I'm "whining" or "bitching" or "complaining" or "qq'ing" or any other such lexical field related verb can join the deepest level of hell when they die and never reincarnate and that's pretty much my final feeling on that, since I hate you bastards with a passion, going around forums dismissing everything you see with a typical childish expression in the hopes of making yourself sound more important even though the only thing you're doing is calling them out for caring about something. Burn in hell you bastard, go raise your post count elsewhere, I've dealt enough with you venomous vipers on the WoW forums and if I had 3 genie's wishes one of them would be that you people are never allowed to share your bile in any form ever again.

    [This post was infracted for flaming.]
    Last edited by Rivelle; 2013-04-25 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    - People who tell me I'm "whining" or "bitching" or "complaining" or "qq'ing" or any other such lexical field related verb can join the deepest level of hell when they die and never reincarnate and that's pretty much my final feeling on that, since I hate you bastards with a passion, going around forums dismissing everything you see with a typical childish expression in the hopes of making yourself sound more important even though the only thing you're doing is calling them out for caring about something. Burn in hell you bastard, go raise your post count elsewhere, I've dealt enough with you venomous vipers on the WoW forums and if I had 3 genie's wishes one of them would be that you people are never allowed to share your bile in any form ever again.
    You calling other people childish is, hmm, interesting.

  3. #123
    It would take quite a bit for me to play again. I played non stop from launch until right before the Ulduar patch. Came back for a bit to play through Ulduar, ToC, and some Icecrown but not nearly as much. The game lost something to me at that point. I really really hated the PVP of that time period which to me was equally important as raids. I took some breaks in Cata, overall that is the worst expansion for me and I never picked up Mists of Pandaria. To me it's obvious Blizzard doesn't really care about WoW like they used to. People complain about CC in PVP throughout multiple expansions and they just add more every expansion. I really don't understand how anyone, especially Blizzard can enjoy being chain CC'd and dying in a few seconds. I only played Cata because friends convinced me to and they needed me to help fill a 10 man roster, it felt like a chore throughout the entire expansion.
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  4. #124
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    I have played Non-stop since Day One of Vanilla. Never unsubbed.

    The Day WOW goes Free To Play is the Day I quit, and never look back.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  5. #125
    On the contrary, I would consider resubbing for pretty much any expansion out of sheer curiosity, but the moment I hear 'free to play' and 'WoW' in the same sentence I'll almost certainly never return. When WoW is in a good place, it's well worth what amounts to 50 cents (i.e. a gumball) for hours upon hours of entertainment. When WoW is off it's game - and that's happened a number of times over the past decade - I won't even waste my time for free. I've quit for a few years twice now, and taken multiple month breaks a few more times, and usually I just get tired of various aspects of the game and let my time run out w/o even using it. When pvp gets ridiculous, when the story goes off on bizarre tangents, etc. I literally will throw my money away, because it's not wasting what little time I get to relax and have fun on something that isn't, well, fun.

    With all that being said, I have a hunch that going free to play would likely signify that WoW would never again be 'in a good place', would indeed never be 'fun' again. The economics just wouldn't work out, and one of the consequences (in addition to annoyances like the complete destruction of whatever community is left in the game by free-to-play trolls) would certainly be a drop off in game quality. Truth be told, I'd be more willing to take a bump to $20 a month or even a dollar a day for a truly special feature or development in the game than I would be to come back to a free-to-play WoW and watch the remnants of what has become a significant hobby/interest of mine be utterly ruined.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    Ever since BC and later Blizzard games in-game dialogue/quest-based dialogue in WoW reflects poor quality writing, with some exceptions, mostly in WOTLK, and at the worst, see farts of crapdaria and Cacaclysm.

    - I never claimed WoW came along and changed things irrevocably. I won't continue this argument based on the fact that it's troll bait and pure invention of your own deluded mind.
    Stop contradicting yourself.

    And I like how in your post you never once touched on the subject of the massive retconning between the Warcraft RTS games.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
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  7. #127
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    Well I temporarily am quitting because my computer decided to not run WoW well, so...
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Well I do so I guess your entire premise has been proven wrong.
    How many other people here want to concur with this guy? Speak up.

    That 10m and 25m should be separate. E.g. let's make Firelands 25m, Hour of Twilight 10m, Mogu'shan Vaults 25m, Heart of Fear 10m, Terrace 25m, and Throne of Thunder 10m. Why? Well, just because.

    And also speak up if you think that this was a bad mistake that has now been fixed.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    Would you stay away as long as the game doesn't become free to play, or would you return if the next expansion or the one after turned back to core Warcraft values and/or focused its PVE gameplay on fun/skill instead of pure grind? (overhaul of the current 8 year old system)
    release a f2p system or even just raise the cap from level 20 to like 80 and ill play it.

    I personally think if there was one mmo that could work using a sub system along with a f2p system its wow it all just depends how blizzard dose it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 04:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I have played Non-stop since Day One of Vanilla. Never unsubbed.

    The Day WOW goes Free To Play is the Day I quit, and never look back.
    Why. The amount of content wow would get wouldn't change nothing would change besides the amount of players coming in to play.

    So why would someone else's enjoyment ruin yours and before you say "Because the f2p community is immature and bla bla bla" WOW has the worse MMO/Gaming community I personally have ever seen so even that part wouldn't change.

    I can see blizzard trying to get the best of both worlds keep the sub cost but do Marco sells to those under a level cap.

    Like lets say level 1-80 is free anything above is not. Guilds would be made only for said content and blizzard would make money off said people who use the shop.

    Like I said a min ago I personally feel if any game can pull off a Sub/F2p system its WOW just depends how blizzard dose it.
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  10. #130
    Dreadlord Asics's Avatar
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    Burgeoning career and a wedding to plan, no time to raid.

    As a progression raider for most of my WoW "career" I didn't find enjoyment doing just 5 mans, random BGs and the occasional LFR, so I quit.

    Maybe I will return to WoW but as it stands probably not. I understand a grind is necessary for games like this (and other MMOs) but after having the burden of other more important responsibilities placed upon me, I can't justify spending 4 hours, 3 days a week on a game. Maybe if I could break that up into 1-2 hours a day throughout the day, each week for the same result but that cannot happen.

    I do miss raiding with a guild. I actually had a lot of fun doing it. It is just a commitment I cannot make anymore. Maybe later down the road in life I can devote more time to a game like WoW but it doesn't look like anytime soon.
    I drink craft beer, listen to a broad spectrum of music, and am an avid Seattle Seahawks and San Francisco Giants fan!

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    (in addition to annoyances like the complete destruction of whatever community is left in the game by free-to-play trolls)
    Now I must ask how is the f2p "trolls" aka the f2p community worse then wow's at this time.

    Wow has the worse community in any MMO and overall worse community in gaming.

    Don't get me wrong there is a handful who are good people but for every 1 there is 20 who would rather sit in trade troll or ninja loot or just be assholes because they can.
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  12. #132
    I'm more of an old school MMO player and I personally looooove outdoor, contested group content areas. As in huge open areas that have enough content to hold multiple groups. With what theyve been doing over and over and over with the same ole Dungeons/Raids, its gotten extremely boring. And Dailies.... uggg dont get me started on those PoS's. If they added some form of open, contested content as in open group areas or a massive open contested dungeon, I'd have a lot of fun with that but with the same type of content they continue pumping out; Instances/Raids/Dailies, The shits boring as hell. I find myself logging in and immediately logging out trying to figure out what the hell to play because Im so damn bored.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Now I must ask how is the f2p "trolls" aka the f2p community worse then wow's at this time.

    Wow has the worse community in any MMO and overall worse community in gaming.

    Don't get me wrong there is a handful who are good people but for every 1 there is 20 who would rather sit in trade troll or ninja loot or just be assholes because they can.
    All communities have their shitposters and their saints. Stop pointing fingers at who is worse and claiming to better. If you were then you wouldn't be doing that.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

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  14. #134
    I quit. Only played a week or so of MoP. I PvP almost exclusively, play a Rogue, and they basically gave most classes an exact replica of Rogue abilities. Warriors can do everything a Rogue can while wearing plate and having better mobility. Plate means nothing, leather means nothing. Hybrid healing is out of control. Healers are just as out of control as ever, burst damage is still ludicrous, CC is higher than ever. I don't really consider myself QQing because I actually quit out of bad taste rather than bitterness. I just don't find the concept of it fun at all.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    All communities have their shitposters and their saints. Stop pointing fingers at who is worse and claiming to better. If you were then you wouldn't be doing that.
    Never did I say that all communities didn't but wow's is by far the worse or at min its in the top 3.

    Most who play wow only care for themselfs and will screw over everyone else to get that shinny epic or mount I have been on many servers and there all the same and that is one of the reason's why I left.

    I take it you overlooked my question in that post.

    "waiting on the you left wow why come here comment now"

    So ill go ahead and answer it with because I am here.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2013-04-25 at 04:55 AM.
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  16. #136
    I do think WoW has lost its focus.

    Personally I think WoW has done a number of things wrong.

    I would have liked to see server consolidation along with 100% unrestricted access to cross realm action. Therefore, we can have fully populated servers which force socialization, and to some extent politeness, but also the ability to do anything I want with any friend on whatever server. You will only be on another server if invited by someone already on it. With 10 characters 86 and above, I am unwilling to re-level and start over.

    I think the game is becoming too simple in regards to theory and rotations. Rogues are boring as fuck. Mages are boring as fuck. The only class I really enjoy are hybrids that actually have a good number of utility spells. Don't misconstrue this - basic DPS rotations are boring.

    Achievements for the sake of achievements. Since when is getting achievements an achievement? Is it really necessary for there to be a 10,000 daily quest achievement (I'm ~900 away lol).

    Challenge modes are the reverse of what I wanted. I wanted scaling dungeons. I wanted to go in there with better gear and the dungeon would get harder proportionally +1. So if you do heroics in 430 gear it drops 463 gear like normal. This gives you a 33 item level buff. If the average item level of the group is 463, the dungeon will drop 476 gear, if 476 geared it drops 483 gear. Meanwhile, completing a dungeon in 430 gear will be easier than completing it in 476 gear. You can still get rewards but the dungeon scales exponentially, becoming more and more harder for less and less of a reward. It would have a finite gear cap and completing that will render you a "gold."

    RBGs is exactly the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted "rated" battlegrounds. I want to randomly Q with random people and be rated on my performance win or lose. So, a less geared paladin plays better and gets a better rated than myself - even though I may do more damage. I want to play Halo, kill motherfuckers, and get medals - more or less.

    I want Blizzard to do voice chat well. Really dropped the ball on this one. There is ZERO excuse why anyone who plays world of warcraft needs skype, ventrilo, whatever. Blizzard should be able to do it with high quality audio and with little extra stress on your connection - at least as well as all the third party programs.

    Blizzard is attempting to make content accessible by anyone. Make one raid ( normal). Make said raid slightly harder (heroic). Now, dumb it down and you have LFR. Oh look, one raid (content) is usable for 3 different demographics.

    Class legendary quests. When you play WoW now there's very little in the game itself that makes you get better at the class you're playing. How hard is it to put one or two class only, unique quests, into every zone that are crucial to teaching and learning the class. This is kinda like the warlock green fire quest, but there needs to be more of them.

    Professions are fucked. Nuff said. They all look cookie cutter and identical. Blacksmithing, tailoring, and LWing, are THE EXACT SAME THING. Sure the bonuses are different but change the name and the raw material and its all the same. How do I make 50 items from ghost iron that are all different. In vanilla I would need to add an essence or an item that spawned in one location. Go kill someone to get an item. Professions are just the new time sink for your character once you reach max level (or before if you're cool). Last couple expansions professions have following this same formula, and very rarely have crafted items been obtainable only through being fucking awesome. Why cant I craft good belts, helmets, gloves, shoulders? The fuck? Why do I need raid materials to make every good item? Can't I just go get some rare item in the world to make it? Why can't I craft good weapons?

    Inscription and glyphs are terrible. Blizzard is so confused on how to tackle this (along with the talent trees). Inscription is worthless and I have ~100 scrolls of wisdom to prove it. Glyphs are pretty much cookie cutter now along with talents....except now its one more thing I have to check and change before fights. As a paladin I use the same 2 glyphs with mass exorcism sometimes making an appearance. I also only change my level 90 talent.

    Passive skills make the classes way too complicated, despite the fact they're somehow getting dumbed down.

    It's late, I'll check this thread again later.

  17. #137
    Brewmaster jahasafrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisWillNotStand View Post
    Would you stay away as long as the game doesn't become free to play, or would you return if the next expansion or the one after turned back to core Warcraft values and/or focused its PVE gameplay on fun/skill instead of pure grind? (overhaul of the current 8 year old system)
    My approach to WoW in the future will be that same as it's been for the past few years: play for a couple months when a new expansion is released, then cancel sub and wait for next expansion. I enjoy exploring, leveling, and some achievement hunting but I have no interest in wasting my time on the hampster wheel that is raiding and PvP is pointless to me.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    The Warcraft games that have these "core values" that you seem to cherish DO NOT EXIST.

    Blizzard's writing really, really isn't that good. And for you to ascribe to them such a thing as "consistent writing" only confirms you wearing the thickest nostalgia goggles known to man. Every single installment in the Warcraft franchise brought with it retcons. And all the other complements you lauded on them are only really applicable to Warcraft 3 since none of the earlier installments had ANY DIALOGUE OR CHARACTERS TO SPEAK OF. Oh, there were hero units. They're just not worth mentioning since everything they did was retconned in the next game.

    I love Warcraft, but I'm not blind to its problems. To think that World of Warcraft was what came along and changed things it to confirm you just plain weren't paying attention. They were great games, some of the greatest RTS games to grace the whole world. But the writing just plain isn't that great. I love it, but it's not great.

    But, hey, lets not forget you're yet another in the long line of people who thinks world PVP was this awesome and wonderful thing and not really the bile spewing bitch fests that ground low level questing to a halt all the people who were actually there and didn't take pleasure in griefing others know it to be. I'd like to know what exactly makes you think zerging a town and then running away before the elite guards respawned and steamrolled everyone captured "core Warcraft values".

    And, on top of all this, I'd like to know why you're here bitching about this in 2013. You're really, REALLY late with the kind of things you're complaining about.
    You are missing the point I feel. The thing about world PvP and griefing that made it good was the community. If you're getting camped, you better make friends ith a 60 real fast. "Oh, look, it's that dude I saved in STV when he was level 38. I know you. You're level 60 now."

    These things don't happen anymore.

    I thought Warcraft story telling was great - Starcraft as well. They always had good cut-scenes and phenomenal aesthetics. What MMOs and RTS's tell a better story?

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    You are missing the point I feel. The thing about world PvP and griefing that made it good was the community. If you're getting camped, you better make friends ith a 60 real fast. "Oh, look, it's that dude I saved in STV when he was level 38. I know you. You're level 60 now."

    These things don't happen anymore.

    I thought Warcraft story telling was great - Starcraft as well. They always had good cut-scenes and phenomenal aesthetics. What MMOs and RTS's tell a better story?
    Guild Wars 1/Rift/SWTOR/GW2/DCU. I could keep going but I think you get my point. I really loved GW1's story telling for each story.

    WOW's story telling is bad it feels like a B rated movie at best and that is mainly because they leave out so many details its like playing fill in the blanks compared to the books.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2013-04-25 at 05:25 AM.
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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Never did I say that all communities didn't but wow's is by far the worse or at min its in the top 3.

    Most who play wow only care for themselfs and will screw over everyone else to get that shinny epic or mount I have been on many servers and there all the same and that is one of the reason's why I left.

    I take it you overlooked my question in that post.

    "waiting on the you left wow why come here comment now"

    So ill go ahead and answer it with because I am here.
    And there exist people from all fandoms that will go to lengths to convince you that they are better in some way by rubbing in your face how terrible they think others are.

    And the hypocrisy is completely lost on them.

    If you really were better such actions would be beneath you. But it isn't, so you aren't.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 09:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    You are missing the point I feel. The thing about world PvP and griefing that made it good was the community. If you're getting camped, you better make friends ith a 60 real fast. "Oh, look, it's that dude I saved in STV when he was level 38. I know you. You're level 60 now."
    And when your level 60 friends flies down to help you only to find the griefer has run off he feels he has wated his time. Then a half hour later after he has returned to his business and you yours the griefing begins again and your friends can only drop what he is doing to help you so much.
    These things don't happen anymore.
    These things rarely happened then.
    I thought Warcraft story telling was great - Starcraft as well. They always had good cut-scenes and phenomenal aesthetics. What MMOs and RTS's tell a better story?
    I love Warcraft. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore retcons and characters that exist purely as a device to move the plot.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
    2/5/1940 - 5/12/2014

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