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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    If they priest walks far enough away that the DK out-ranges his heals, does the Shaman say "his mistake, I'm going to stay near my pillar and he'll learn his lesson next game"
    Yeah, thats what I do often when I play with players that don't have a sense of positioning. If they die repeatedly without starting to pay attention to it I leave the team.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    This is ridiculous. 2s


    thats all that you need to say. 2s arent balanced ever.

  3. #43
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    Yeah, thats what I do often when I play with players that don't have a sense of positioning. If they die repeatedly without starting to pay attention to it I leave the team.
    Right, of course - but the discs sole job on the team is to be constantly dragging the DK out of position (while surviving) - so that the mage can capitalize on it. So it sounds great to say "well, the DK will never go out of position!" but I think the real answer is "he will if he wants to hit something". It's just a fundamental rule of any such game, if the melee wants to be on target - they have to extend, and if the support wants to be on target - they have to follow. Sure, if all the DKs cooldowns are down they can both go pillar hump until CDs are back up - but with good positioning a mage/disc team can counter enemy offensive action with kiting, and if a melee teams tries to turtle up - a good ranged can poke them until they want to play again - where the dk can't poke back.

    Pretty much anyone who has played a ranged class intuitively understands how to poke without over-extending, where people struggle is how to turn a seemingly bad situation "the DK is on the offensive and is blowing every cooldown" into their advantage. For some comps in WoW 2's, there isn't a response (because WoW 2's is not balanced) - Disc/Fmage has the perfect response to that though - in fact, as Disc/Fmage you are more likely to score kills during the enemy's push than during your own (by, as I mentioned, getting the DK to over-extend to CC his healer).
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Because the priest decides the position of where the DK will go if the DK is on the priest (same for the mage if the DK is on the mage). If all the priest ever has to do to peel the DK is LoS the shaman - so that the DK runs away and doesn't LoS (or more importantly, out-range) his Sham - that DK is going to spend pretty much the entire game standing around in the open eating mage+priest damage. Everytime he gets on the priest, all the priest has to do is make it around one corner and the DK will obviously run home to the Shaman right?

    Of course not, the DK will chase the priest to keep up pressure and/or score the kill - they are aware of LoS, but melee are almost never aware of out-ranging their healers, and even if they are it's still often the right call. Nobody is suggesting that melee aren't aware that going LoS of their healers puts them at a risk, but to suggest that melee don't take that risk is silly - not only do they do it all the time, they are often right for doing it. If the DK goes LoS though, and takes damage, that forces the Shaman to try to get sight on the DK - which in this comp gets the Shaman CC'd. If the Disc keeps walking away from the Shaman through the open, does the DK stand still and let the priest leave melee? No, they follow and keep hitting them. If they priest walks far enough away that the DK out-ranges his heals, does the Shaman say "his mistake, I'm going to stay near my pillar and he'll learn his lesson next game" or does the shaman leave the safety of their pillar to heal the DK? Of course the shaman tries to save the DK -> eats CC -> maybe the dk dies. It's an endlessly repeatable process for Fmage/Disc - breaking the CC or surviving the burst is a non-repeatable process for DK/Rsham (they only have so many AMS / IBF / Trinkets): walking away doesn't have a cooldown.
    "most melee are never aware of out ranging heals" Your whole strat is built around playing a bad team. Thing is, every melee isn't retarded. ALL melee dont run los if they have even the chance of getting rolled. Whats silly is to think that the team you are facing doesn't know what you are trying to do. Whats also is silly is to think a Fdk can't simply grip a priest and blow him up where he stands with a proper set up. Mages can be CC and live in a cc why the priest get melted. If you out skill any team you will win, but dont assume that every melee will just allow you to waddle them around and blow them up. If you bank on playing this strat depending on the skill they have it may work or you could get owned. When I do twos I don't allow myself to get kited into mid unless I have away to escape a burst like that. Ill just hang out, might cause a draw might cause them to get careless. In my own experience as a melee and playing mage/disc after a while of playing los wars the mage/disc(including myself) will get tired of having shit los or ranged and try to come in for the kill, I wind up losing most of my games this way as that comp, against that comp is how I win most of my games. Thats my own experince, but trying to bank on every melee team to be bad isn't the way to go about it. Because sooner or later you are going to have to learn how to defeat them when they actually know how to play their class. Everyone you do arenas agaisnt are not Keyboard turners or back peddlers. The teams you run into that do KBT or BP you prob don't need a strat against them anyway.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 12:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    Yeah, thats what I do often when I play with players that don't have a sense of positioning. If they die repeatedly without starting to pay attention to it I leave the team.
    If you are playing agaisnt teams like this, then you don't really need a strat to kill them. They are bad and 1200 or so rated so it doesn't matter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Right, of course - but the discs sole job on the team is to be constantly dragging the DK out of position (while surviving) - so that the mage can capitalize on it. So it sounds great to say "well, the DK will never go out of position!" but I think the real answer is "he will if he wants to hit something". It's just a fundamental rule of any such game, if the melee wants to be on target - they have to extend, and if the support wants to be on target - they have to follow. Sure, if all the DKs cooldowns are down they can both go pillar hump until CDs are back up - but with good positioning a mage/disc team can counter enemy offensive action with kiting, and if a melee teams tries to turtle up - a good ranged can poke them until they want to play again - where the dk can't poke back.

    Pretty much anyone who has played a ranged class intuitively understands how to poke without over-extending, where people struggle is how to turn a seemingly bad situation "the DK is on the offensive and is blowing every cooldown" into their advantage. For some comps in WoW 2's, there isn't a response (because WoW 2's is not balanced) - Disc/Fmage has the perfect response to that though - in fact, as Disc/Fmage you are more likely to score kills during the enemy's push than during your own (by, as I mentioned, getting the DK to over-extend to CC his healer).
    With 2 trinkets an AMZ an AMS and a IBF you can really do a few things before you have to just not over extend. You will often land a kill at those times and if you don't and the mage pokes you, you can just poke them back. It doens't take much to survive a Disc/Mage. Like you said a Disc/Mage gets most of the kills durning the opponets offensive push, rather then thier own push. What this ultimatly means is that a DK/Sham can easily live and play defensive and stay alive till CDs come back up. Being the disc is cloth and it don't take but a few lucky oblit crits, all they have to do is play the rng game till they win or its a draw.

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