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  1. #1

    The "buffs" are a lie, 5.3 the death of us?

    Stopped my sub yesterday cuz i wanted to take a break from pvping and wow untill 5.3, (private reasons, not just our somewhat poor yet viable state).

    got bit bored today so logged on to the ptr's hoping for some refreshing changes on afflic (my arena spec, screw destro for rbg's)
    and what i saw at first i loved, healing on dummies seems really nice with only 4 targets my SL got me around 7k hps at full tyrincal gear.
    which seems kinda good ( well good comparing to nothing on live).

    but then as i recalled they increased battle fatigue, so i just went on a duel with somone told him to stand around as i check the healing.
    oh god. healthstone+dark reg ticking for mearly 20k combined, SL dropped from 2.6k per tick to 1.4k, and one of the worst (which i think is live on 5.2 and might has some tooltip issues) is Sac pact, from observer absorbing lousy 120k dmg, broken in 1 gcd from some ele shaman.

    So overall what we go so far? 10% increased dmg (havent seen much of change maybe 1k more on dots)
    SL healing for 1.5k per tick
    Dark reg+ Healthstone our healing cd bassicly is now shit
    Sac pact shielding for 120k :/
    drainlife around 6k

    So I hope the ptr bugged today and this is all false, but if this goes as it is, and im not miss understanding anything, (and with the current survivbility in live i have as afflic) i can conduct it might be a deal breaker....

    Anyone who can say otherwise, and prove me wrong plz do, i will be happy.


    edit: bit dramtic title, oh well... xd
    Last edited by Nemasisx; 2013-04-23 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Warrlockz op

    Please post constructively.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-04-23 at 02:13 PM.

  3. #3
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    PTR is PTR. I would suggest not freaking out until after you are sure certain things have been implemented, or actually go live.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    PTR is PTR. I would suggest not freaking out until after you are sure certain things have been implemented, or actually go live.
    Problem with this is that if you don't freak out during the PTR terrible things go live. For example 5.0 warriors or current Thug Cleave.

  5. #5
    This nerf comes from global system, and I havent seen 1 single thread about it, i believe no locks have tried it and no one complaint about it, thus it might go live...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemasisx View Post
    This nerf comes from global system, and I havent seen 1 single thread about it, i believe no locks have tried it and no one complaint about it, thus it might go live...
    There have been a lot of posts about non hybrid classes' healing being nerfed; I haven't seen a response to the issue yet though.

  7. #7
    Havent seen any, anyways just making some awearness, id hate to come back in 5.3 only to find out that it's all gone. (and dont give me that bs, ptr is ptr, 5.3 might come in the next few weeks, and everyone knows that pvp is being really tested, just bunch of ppl going to dummies maybe some duels, and then we all act suprise when the new patch hits, and X is shit, while Y is a god.

    ahm warriors 5.0, ahm rogues now, ahm hunters for all of mop.

  8. #8
    While i am not the type who advocates for the "sky is falling" mantra, I am also not convinced that whole 10% buff and the whole Haunt refunds a soul shard is going to help Affliction in pvp. Those are Crumbs of a buff, something only locks would ever get. I remember in 5.2 and how they try to overbuff rogues and monks because they are dead, but affliction is dead as well, but only get crumbs.

    Affliction has a lot of issues mainly how it deals no damage whatsoever when you get focused with all the interrupts. It needs to either have more utility, survivability or damage. Currently, we don't have the strongest dots and we dont have the strongest pet BUT with all he downsides of being a pet class.

    Shadowpriests will still be superior even after their nerfs. That is how sad the state of affliction is.

    But then again, at least they can leave destro and demo alone. Rocking a 1% rep, oh yeah locks are fine.

  9. #9
    A Pure DPS Pet Class getting a nerf to OP Healing?

    STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES GUYS.

    But seriously, crying because your warlock now can't be his own pocket healer is just plain stupid.

    Please don't troll.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-04-23 at 02:25 PM.

  10. #10
    They said a few times that self heals will be scaling from PvP Power. Global nerfs to healing affect everyone though, so you can't really just look at the numbers for one class or spec in a vacuum.

    I will say though, that I think this will effect serve to harm undergeared players of certain specs disproportionately to others, since self healing is factored into overall survivability.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    A Pure DPS Pet Class getting a nerf to OP Healing?

    STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES GUYS.

    But seriously, crying because your warlock now can't be his own pocket healer is just plain stupid.
    Honestly this is an uninformed opinion. The reason we have a major heal on a 2 minute cd is because it was traded for passive damage reduction and self-heals in MoP. Most locks preferred the former model as now once we've blown our cd's we become an easy target, proof of which is our near bottom of the pack class standing in the over 2200 3's bracket. On top of this an inadvertent consequence of the ever-growing battle fatigue debuff is a major nerf to warlock survivability. Take a look at the other caster classes: mages retain their escapes and spriests, boomkins and ele shamans are getting pvp power into healing buffs to compensate, leaving warlocks the most hurt by this change.

    Edit: after reading Jessicka's post I did some research and found the updated pvp power healing info. Healers get 100%, hybrids 75% and pures 40%. Looking at some forum number crunching, it appears that even if we fully stack pvp power it results in a nerf to pure self-heals with the upcoming battle fatigue buff. It puts us in an odd situation where we get to choose between the passive mitigation resilience stacking gives us which warlocks have been dependent on or stacking pvp power to diminish the nerf to self-heals and increase our dps (best defense is a good offense). Considering baseline resilience jumping to 65%, it would seems we're being steered towards pvp power stacking.
    Last edited by Docmort; 2013-04-23 at 02:05 PM.
    When Dalaran is ashes, mage, you have my permission to die.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Docmort View Post
    Honestly this is an uninformed opinion. The reason we have a major heal on a 2 minute cd is because it was traded for passive damage reduction and self-heals in MoP. Most locks preferred the former model as now once we've blown our cd's we become an easy target, proof of which is our near bottom of the pack class standing in the over 2200 3's bracket. On top of this an inadvertent consequence of the ever-growing battle fatigue debuff is a major nerf to warlock survivability. Take a look at the other caster classes: mages retain their escapes and spriests, boomkins and ele shamans are getting pvp power into healing buffs to compensate, leaving warlocks the most hurt by this change.
    Affliction deals no damage, 10% on our dots won't fix it. 50% probably would, but still questionable.
    Chaos Bolt crits for 60k, vs 70k Ice Lance.

    There is no easy fix to warlocks.. Since every class except warlocks and rogues gained cc abilities in MOP, who in fact lost cc abilities, you'd have to reimburse us with a new cc (along the lines of Death Coil or Deep Freeze) and buff our damage ontop of that.
    Why would they nerf the 2 strongest classes to bring them to the level of the others and then at the same time buff the others to bring them to the level of the strongest? Is common sense really that hard? 2-1=1 and 1+1=2. GG hard math.

  13. #13
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Lets add on top of that:
    *Gateway can now be destroyed
    *Extra ramps in Arenas with z-axises

    All together, we are taking a pretty big hit as we will not only have weaker survivability, but it will also be a lot easier to stick on us due the extra ramps and the ability to destroy the gateways.

    And
    Chaos Bolt crits for 60k, vs 70k Ice Lance.
    This.
    The damage of Chaos Bolt without cooldowns up is pathetic compared to what other classes can do with instants / casts that are a lot easier to get off.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-04-23 at 02:11 PM.

  14. #14
    The healing is gonna be a joke and they SLIGHTLY buffed our 4set at the cost of another survival ability... unending resolve bigger cd. Soul shard refund on dispel is gonna make afflic total garbage to meh garbage. In the blue post they seemed perfectly content with the small changes they made... Affliction was bad before the 25% nerf to dots, why do they think the 10% buff from pvp set is gonna change anything. MAELFIC GRASP IS THE PROBLEM.

    I don't mind the change to make our healing nerfed so much, something needs to be done about healing in general. But there is no compensation and they don't seem to think locks suffer from battle fatigue.

    Also filth you are so right, I used the icelance example for someone who told me chaos bolt was op. Also right about how much we lost mop, you know I think you made a thread in beta or early on (could've been someone else) about it and I argued against it because the new talents seemed SO great and I assumed they'd be more than enough to compensate. Well I was wrong... very wrong.

    Losing passive heals, baseline coil and shadowflame snare... ouch.
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2013-04-23 at 02:22 PM.

  15. #15
    I saw Maldiva gemming pure Mastery and his damage seemed like a real thing. It drops his resil a ton but it could work next patch with 65% base resil.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Problem with this is that if you don't freak out during the PTR terrible things go live. For example 5.0 warriors or current Thug Cleave.
    Absolutely. People saying PTR is PTR are not really understanding one of the key points in having a PTR at all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    A Pure DPS Pet Class getting a nerf to OP Healing?

    STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES GUYS.

    But seriously, crying because your warlock now can't be his own pocket healer is just plain stupid.
    So true. The warlocks self heal is really strong atm.

    Btw, every secondary Heal skill is getting nerfed with 5.3, it's not only the warlocks who suffer

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    There have been a lot of posts about non hybrid classes' healing being nerfed; I haven't seen a response to the issue yet though.
    From what I last read about healing in PvP is that Battle Fatigue was increased from 30% to 50% so that PvP Power was more attractive to healers. While doing this they also buffed hybrid healers to compensate as part of their utility in PvP is the ability to throw an occasional heal when possible. Non hybrid healers got a slight buff as well, but not enough to make them self reliant on their own heals. This makes complete sense as the test the OP did was only in a duel where he was upset at the healing. When in a RBG/Arena (more what they aim their numbers at) you should have a healer on your team who is able to heal you up. Your own self healing abilities are there to help make it so you survive a little bit longer, but not enough to basically outdo some dps classes like they were before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    I don't mind the change to make our healing nerfed so much, something needs to be done about healing in general. But there is no compensation and they don't seem to think locks suffer from battle fatigue.


    They know you are affected by Battle Fatigue and that's why the nerf went the way it did. It was suppose to make you not your own healer and to actually rely on others to heal you. Instead of you walking around being able to 1v1/2 other's without the need of a healer. If they wanted to straight nerf Warlock healing they would've just nerfed the healing spells right from the start instead of adjusting it in PvP.

    Also, did you change any forges/gems/enchants on your gear? I know some people gem straight resil for the surivability, but with 5.3 and base resilience could change how you do some things.
    Last edited by Lucetia; 2013-04-23 at 02:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    I don't really get why Battle Fatigue would affect warlocks... Isn't it meant for classes that have real healing abilities, to prevent them from flashhealing up their teammates in Shadow for example? Slightly confused.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    From what I last read about healing in PvP is that Battle Fatigue was increased from 30% to 50% so that PvP Power was more attractive to healers. While doing this they also buffed hybrid healers to compensate as part of their utility in PvP is the ability to throw an occasional heal when possible. Non hybrid healers got a slight buff as well, but not enough to make them self reliant on their own heals. This makes complete sense as the test the OP did was only in a duel where he was upset at the healing. When in a RBG/Arena (more what they aim their numbers at) you should have a healer on your team who is able to heal you up. Your own self healing abilities are there to help make it so you survive a little bit longer, but not enough to basically outdo some dps classes like they were before.



    They know you are affected by Battle Fatigue and that's why the nerf went the way it did. It was suppose to make you not your own healer and to actually rely on others to heal you. Instead of you walking around being able to 1v1/2 other's without the need of a healer. If they wanted to straight nerf Warlock healing they would've just nerfed the healing spells right from the start instead of adjusting it in PvP.

    Also, did you change any forges/gems/enchants on your gear? I know some people gem straight resil for the surivability, but with 5.3 and base resilience could change how you do some things.

    Following this line of reasoning things like pally bubbles for ret should also get nerfed. We cannot heal whenever we want, it's a survival cd and the current model compensates for the more passive survivability one we had pre-MoP. There is sufficient reason to question the wisdom behind nerfing warlock survivability as currently it gets blown the first time dps connects on you and unlike some other pures we don't have the ability to reset our long cd's.
    Last edited by Docmort; 2013-04-23 at 02:56 PM.
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