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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    At what point/gear level/SEP haste overtakes mastery or even my beloved crit. My understanding about these forums was that they are specifically for this kind of theorizing rather than having an OP just told to stop trying to think outside the box. Perhaps I could have misunderstood - but I believe that its why so many players check these threads.
    We're trying to say your a few weeks late to the discussion, nothing has changed, the math is out there.
    What more you want ?
    Try going all out on haste yourself and post back any spectacular finds, if you do find any ?
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-04-26 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #22
    What I'm wondering is how different it feels to play as a haste fury. Does it feel like vanilla fury warrior/icc? Super duper HS spam-a-thon? Or is it far more subtle than that?

  3. #23
    With the caveat that this is from simcraft, which is certainly not 100% accurate or infallible: swapping my crit and haste ratings around (so 15.9k haste/1.9k crit) increases my gaze of the twins uptime (only rppm trinket I have atm) from 41.4% to 46.5%. I get 85.5 lightning strike procs per run compared to 61.8. So the sim is certainly modelling the impact of haste on rppm mechanics.

    My overall rage generation is slightly better with the high haste setup, gaining 11.75 rage per second vs 10.07 rage per second with real setup, and I do a few more heroic strikes (145 vs 123), but the number of enrage events and ensuing raging blows is drastically lower with the neutered crit (69.7 vs 112.1). 63% enrage uptime vs 92%.

    End result is a simmed loss of 27k dps. It'll feel quite different, but not what I'd describe as pleasant.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    At what point/gear level/SEP haste overtakes mastery or even my beloved crit. My understanding about these forums was that they are specifically for this kind of theorizing rather than having an OP just told to stop trying to think outside the box. Perhaps I could have misunderstood - but I believe that its why so many players check these threads.
    In that case, just run sims. In my gear, I value haste to be just baaaarely behind mastery(less than .01 SEP difference), though it'll be much, much worse in AoE situations. I thought there was some possibility of haste being strong if stacked high enough while using both the Talisman and Gaze trinkets, since they see increasing benefits from haste stacking since procs are more likely to occur while a stack is already active. But, obtainable levels of haste aren't enough to hit a point where it's really worthwhile, and you lose too much crit in the process.

    Haste is better than it has ever been before. It'll likely be even better next tier. I don't think it will ever overtake crit though.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    At what point/gear level/SEP haste overtakes mastery or even my beloved crit. My understanding about these forums was that they are specifically for this kind of theorizing rather than having an OP just told to stop trying to think outside the box. Perhaps I could have misunderstood - but I believe that its why so many players check these threads.
    Never. Mastery will gain value as we gain strength, until it overcomes crit sometime around next tier.

  6. #26
    High Overlord Roseby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    What I'm wondering is how different it feels to play as a haste fury. Does it feel like vanilla fury warrior/icc? Super duper HS spam-a-thon? Or is it far more subtle than that?
    Haste fury is a terrible idea. It doesn't benefit from CD's or AoE nearly as much as Mastery as your secondary stat. Also with good gear, when you pop T15 4PC + Reck you should be crit capped which allows you to gem for Str/Crit in Red's irrelevant of bonus due to wasted stats w/ CD crit cap, resulting in a DPS gain.

    Long story short, do not mess around with Haste Fury. It has no synergy with Warrior design, and the benefits from RPPM Meta/Trinkets does not make up for the sheer throughput/capability lost.

  7. #27
    Blademaster Wrekon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roseby View Post
    Haste fury is a terrible idea. It doesn't benefit from CD's or AoE nearly as much as Mastery as your secondary stat. Also with good gear, when you pop T15 4PC + Reck you should be crit capped which allows you to gem for Str/Crit in Red's irrelevant of bonus due to wasted stats w/ CD crit cap, resulting in a DPS gain.

    Long story short, do not mess around with Haste Fury. It has no synergy with Warrior design, and the benefits from RPPM Meta/Trinkets does not make up for the sheer throughput/capability lost.
    Are you sure its a good idea to gem str/crit just because you are crit capped for 10 sec duration of skull banner every 3 mins?

  8. #28
    High Overlord Roseby's Avatar
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    It's really quite neglible, you can go either way tbh. Sim it yourself, but at certain points the str it not far off from the crit at all. Keeping in mind that Str scales better on AoE fight then crit, and it can be superior. It depends on your playstyle. I prefer the higher AP because I manage my RB's with BzR in CS so up to you.

    Both are viable.
    Roseby - Fury/Arms Warrior
    Jobei - Elemental Shaman

    Requiel's #1 Fan.

  9. #29
    Randomly procs from using engineering salvage ability. I found this out farming for Jeeves.
    How's that for RNG?

    Wait, so does Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault...
    Does everyone know about this?
    Last edited by Gorca; 2013-04-28 at 07:31 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    I love the trinket. Yeah, sometimes it sucks when it doesn't proc on pull but man oh man I love it during execute.
    Pretty much this, you can't really wait for 20 secs or so with your opening burst but it's really good for execute burst. Atleast the Heroic trinket has good uptime for me.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Roseby View Post
    Haste fury is a terrible idea. It doesn't benefit from CD's or AoE nearly as much as Mastery as your secondary stat. Also with good gear, when you pop T15 4PC + Reck you should be crit capped which allows you to gem for Str/Crit in Red's irrelevant of bonus due to wasted stats w/ CD crit cap, resulting in a DPS gain.

    Long story short, do not mess around with Haste Fury. It has no synergy with Warrior design, and the benefits from RPPM Meta/Trinkets does not make up for the sheer throughput/capability lost.
    I know exactly how if affects damage output, I was asking purely about the FEEL of the playstyle. How much more spammy is it than usual? Are you so overflowing with rage you are HSing outside CS regularly? I'm not here for a lesson in gemming, thanks.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    I know exactly how if affects damage output, I was asking purely about the FEEL of the playstyle. How much more spammy is it than usual? Are you so overflowing with rage you are HSing outside CS regularly? I'm not here for a lesson in gemming, thanks.
    You can see the rage gains aren't that huge. Pretty sure it's not spammy, and I don't particularly want to go back to Wrath style HS spamming anyway.

  13. #33
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Just so you guys know....heroic feathers is night and day better than normal feathers. Picked it up last night, and while I was benching normal feathers due to how it felt.....not the case for heroic. It feels like as big of an upgrade as the first time I picked up Darkmoon Greatness (I may be exaggerating a little.)

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    You can see the rage gains aren't that huge. Pretty sure it's not spammy, and I don't particularly want to go back to Wrath style HS spamming anyway.
    Me neither. I'm only asking because I was wondering what the highest APM you reach in WoW is, and well it would be higher with more HS spam. Was just random ponderings really.

  15. #35
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    It feels like as big of an upgrade as the first time I picked up Darkmoon Greatness (I may be exaggerating a little.)
    I loved that thing - it was like a proc'gasm.

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