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  1. #1

    Fabled Feather Hatred

    I hate Fabled Feather.

    I know I know; RNG is RNG. However this trinket is a bitch, sometimes it procs instantly, other times it takes well over 2mins after the ICD has finished...

    - Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun - 0.616 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.

    Is this intended? Is there something wrong with my trinket? I thought "bad streaks" weren't supposed to be very common with the new RPPM system?

    Anybody else finding huge variation between time taken to proc after the ICD has finished?

  2. #2
    Yeah this trinket is somewhat horrible for some bosses. First when I got It I tried to watch the procc and time my cooldowns to use it. Oh boy my dps was on an all time low.
    I still have it equipped but I just don't care anymore and I just let it be what it is.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    From my experience, you have to keep jumping .. Then it will proc..

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    I hate Fabled Feather.

    I know I know; RNG is RNG. However this trinket is a bitch, sometimes it procs instantly, other times it takes well over 2mins after the ICD has finished...

    - Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun - 0.616 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.

    Is this intended? Is there something wrong with my trinket? I thought "bad streaks" weren't supposed to be very common with the new RPPM system?

    Anybody else finding huge variation between time taken to proc after the ICD has finished?
    The ICD is only there to prevent it from proccing while it's already procced. The average time to proc it should be 60/(.616*haste) ~= 80-90s for most people after the ICD. But, the very first swing after the ICD ends has 10s of banked time without an attempt to proc, so it has a 10*.616*haste/60 ~= 11-12% chance to instantly re-proc as soon as the ICD ends. If it doesn't proc off that attack, then the average will be another 80-90s. If you go more than 50% past the expected average proc time, then bad luck protection starts to kick in, which drastically increases the proc chance over a relatively short period of time. You won't begin to see that until you've gone like over 2 minutes without a proc though. As a result, 2 minutes isn't that abnormal, but it is extremely unlikely that you'll end up going, say, 3 minutes without a proc.

  6. #6
    I love it and really have not had that many issues with regards to it proccing. I've seen the times where it pops up instantly and have seen the longer wait time between procs, but overall it's pretty regular for me.

  7. #7
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    This is where I disagree with the spreadsheets and math. This trinket will yield you the best DPS possible....on a good day. On the other hand, it will yield you terri-bad dps on a bad day. Overall, it equals out, so the law of averages says to use it. But honestly, I am not in a quickly progressing guild. I need to do strong DPS every attempt for heroic progression attempts, and when 30k seperates my good attempts from bad attempts with this trinket, where my deviation is much lower with others (albeit max dps is as well), I have to sit the trinket in lot of situations.

    I have literally had the two set proc as much as feathers on Jin'rokh.....that is bad RNG.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    This is where I disagree with the spreadsheets and math. This trinket will yield you the best DPS possible....on a good day. On the other hand, it will yield you terri-bad dps on a bad day. Overall, it equals out, so the law of averages says to use it. But honestly, I am not in a quickly progressing guild. I need to do strong DPS every attempt for heroic progression attempts, and when 30k seperates my good attempts from bad attempts with this trinket, where my deviation is much lower with others (albeit max dps is as well), I have to sit the trinket in lot of situations.

    I have literally had the two set proc as much as feathers on Jin'rokh.....that is bad RNG.
    The 2 set is .6 RPPM and the Feather is .616. They ought to proc nearly the same number of times on average(Feather slightly less actually since it loses 12s of potential proc time to the ICD every time it procs).

    There's nothing wrong with a bit of randomness in your DPS since you aren't DPSing in a vaccuum. You have an entire raid doing it too. Raid DPS tends to be quite stable from pull to pull because everyone's randomness is balancing everyone else out. If everyone makes choices that yield higher average DPS, raid DPS goes up. If everyone were to choose worse trinkets that were a bit more consistent, your raid DPS would just go down.

  9. #9
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    The 2 set is .6 RPPM and the Feather is .616. They ought to proc nearly the same number of times on average(Feather slightly less actually since it loses 12s of potential proc time to the ICD every time it procs).

    There's nothing wrong with a bit of randomness in your DPS since you aren't DPSing in a vaccuum. You have an entire raid doing it too. Raid DPS tends to be quite stable from pull to pull because everyone's randomness is balancing everyone else out. If everyone makes choices that yield higher average DPS, raid DPS goes up. If everyone were to choose worse trinkets that were a bit more consistent, your raid DPS would just go down.
    For me, personally, I would rather go with the trinkets that have 40-60% uptime with lower values. I do not mind sacrificing potential DPS peaks and valleys for a more stable middle of the road DPS. Like I said, this is where my personal option comes in, and I use my judgement knowing that I am sacrificing the potential to do more DPS (not doing it blindly.) And also, don't get me wrong, I use feathers for a lot of fights, and most farm content. But when every attempt may be a first kill, I want steady DPS.

  10. #10
    Don't get me wrong I'm using it, although the hit feels dirty and I really really do not like the proc, guess I'll have to get used to it.

    It will be fun gaming the proc for mega-roars though!

    Edit: Also has anybody tried a haste build with all the RPPM crap? I know it shouldn't be a damage increase, just wonder if you can FEEL the difference in playstyle or if it's a very minor difference.
    Last edited by Choptimus; 2013-04-25 at 03:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Don't get me wrong I'm using it, although the hit feels dirty and I really really do not like the proc, guess I'll have to get used to it.

    It will be fun gaming the proc for mega-roars though!

    Edit: Also has anybody tried a haste build with all the RPPM crap? I know it shouldn't be a damage increase, just wonder if you can FEEL the difference in playstyle or if it's a very minor difference.
    Have had DR hit for over a mill, and it was fun (Jin'roch)

    Anywho, there is a thread about a haste build....actually I believe it is the one that you and your bestie have flooded with your wow-heroes war. Sims still say haste is not the way to go, and the tester seems to be concluding that as well, but who knows....the RPPM crap is so new.

  12. #12
    I love the trinket. Yeah, sometimes it sucks when it doesn't proc on pull but man oh man I love it during execute.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Have had DR hit for over a mill, and it was fun (Jin'roch)

    Anywho, there is a thread about a haste build....actually I believe it is the one that you and your bestie have flooded with your wow-heroes war. Sims still say haste is not the way to go, and the tester seems to be concluding that as well, but who knows....the RPPM crap is so new.
    ^^^this^^^^

    I just failed at Forum 101

    I'll repost lol.

    The following are two logs of myself and an EU fury warrior (Aimaar). I've been running Arms for a few days (because arms DOES work well with a haste build) and it seems that the proc gods do indeed like it. I went looking through several logs till I found someone in LFR with the buff and decent gear. Not picking on Aimaar, just using him as an example for maths. IF (and I stress IF) its proc is completely based on haste and not influenced by spec (and who knows?) I think that could be a game changer.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0/?s=662&e=991 (Fury LFR Twins)
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Aimaar/simple (his Armory 8.81 haste)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=947&e=1389 (Arms LFR Twins)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ppolyon/simple (my Armory 16.59 haste)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    ^^^this^^^^

    I just failed at Forum 101

    I'll repost lol.

    The following are two logs of myself and an EU fury warrior (Aimaar). I've been running Arms for a few days (because arms DOES work well with a haste build) and it seems that the proc gods do indeed like it. I went looking through several logs till I found someone in LFR with the buff and decent gear. Not picking on Aimaar, just using him as an example for maths. IF (and I stress IF) its proc is completely based on haste and not influenced by spec (and who knows?) I think that could be a game changer.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0/?s=662&e=991 (Fury LFR Twins)
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Aimaar/simple (his Armory 8.81 haste)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=947&e=1389 (Arms LFR Twins)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ppolyon/simple (my Armory 16.59 haste)
    Your log is a high proc outlier, and his log is a low proc outlier. It's completely meaningless. If you compare both your Iron Qons instead, you can see his uptime is higher than yours. Random is random.

  15. #15
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    Your log is a high proc outlier, and his log is a low proc outlier. It's completely meaningless. If you compare both your Iron Qons instead, you can see his uptime is higher than yours. Random is random.
    Let me say first that I appreciate that you took the time to look through them prior to the typical forum d1ck wagging. However, since you're not a blue poster, I'll assume that you're just as "in" as the rest of us relative to the actual potential influences of the procs. I know that its random, but blue has specifically that haste does affect it. At issue here, isn't whether or not its random - but if we can substantially influence their (rppm) procs.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    Let me say first that I appreciate that you took the time to look through them prior to the typical forum d1ck wagging. However, since you're not a blue poster, I'll assume that you're just as "in" as the rest of us relative to the actual potential influences of the procs. I know that its random, but blue has specifically that haste does affect it. At issue here, isn't whether or not its random - but if we can substantially influence their (rppm) procs.
    I'm pretty sure there was a blue post not very long ago saying that they preferred the RNG procs to make things more fun when they actually procs
    Which makes me pretty sure you can't do much about it, and I think the actual RPPM numbers are obtainable which means the math has most likely been done

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    From my experience, you have to keep jumping .. Then it will proc..
    You have to press A right when the pokeball swallows the pokemon, then A again for each wobble.

    50% the time, it works every time.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    You have to press A right when the pokeball swallows the pokemon, then A again for each wobble.

    50% the time, it works every time.
    I knew that... lol

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 03:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaggah View Post
    I'm pretty sure there was a blue post not very long ago saying that they preferred the RNG procs to make things more fun when they actually procs
    Which makes me pretty sure you can't do much about it, and I think the actual RPPM numbers are obtainable which means the math has most likely been done
    "Ghostcrawler: A) RealPPM procs still scale more frequently with haste, which many specs have drastically more or less of. B) The proc that it gives you in this case scales directly with AP, which many specs have drastically more or less of. C) It’s not terribly uncommon for A or B (but not usually both) to occur on a trinket, and we can swallow that much variance."

    Its these things, especially within my own class that I want to hash out.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post
    Its these things, especially within my own class that I want to hash out.
    What, exactly, are you trying to hash out? Haste directly modifies the RPPM rate. There's nothing more to it. I just don't understand what hidden secrets you think there are left to uncover here. The RPPM mechanics and formula were posted by GC. The base RPPM rates of every RPPM effect in the game were posted by GC. There really aren't any unknowns left.

  20. #20
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    What, exactly, are you trying to hash out? Haste directly modifies the RPPM rate.
    At what point/gear level/SEP haste overtakes mastery or even my beloved crit. My understanding about these forums was that they are specifically for this kind of theorizing rather than having an OP just told to stop trying to think outside the box. Perhaps I could have misunderstood - but I believe that its why so many players check these threads.

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