It's not Nostalgia.

[Volitar]

You clearly didn't play during Vanilla.

Nope I started playing just after the SSC patch.

Not everything is easy. You just choose to only do the easy things.

Like what? Everything other than Heroic raiding is lollipops and rainbows.

[spectrefax]

By that definition, considering everything we do is in the past, even if it's in the past couple of seconds, everything we know and remember is nostalgia.

What the OP is annoyed by is probably more the case of people claiming nostalgia is clouding your judgement and you mostly only remember the good things, and have forgotten the bad, as humans tend to do over time.

That and that the MMORPG genre was founded on IMMERSION not convenience.

The games, at their core, were completely designed around IMMERSION. Everything they did and planned was constantly revolved around making it the most immersive experience possible. Now, it's solely designed around convenience.

[Deleted]

And nothing of value was lost.

There was though... World PvP fights were some of the most fun fights I ever had in WoW, much more fun than today's Arena or Random Battlegrounds. Even in the case of ganks, your ganker couldn't just mount up on a fly mount and get away, you could easily take him down with your main since both of you had to be on the ground.

Most 60's didn't even have epic ground mount, so they weren't faster than you either. Today the max level has the advantage of 310 % speed plus flying plus speed perks, whilst the low level only has a ground mount. Even if you get your main you can't catch him. (Not debating whether you should or shouldn't play on a PvP realm so please don't start such a discussion here, I'm perfectly fine on mine and don't regret ever rolling on it.)

[Boogums]

Like what? Everything other than Heroic raiding is lollipops and rainbows.

So, how many things have to be super hard for the 1% before you're happy? You already have heroic raiding and high end pvp, what more do you want?

[Deleted]

That and that the MMORPG genre was founded on IMMERSION not convenience.

The games, at their core, were completely designed around IMMERSION. Everything they did and planned was constantly revolved around making it the most immersive experience possible. Now, it's solely designed around convenience.

Which is really quite sad considering it's supposed to be an RPG, isn't it?

[Pull My Finger]

It is nostalgia, sorry. And even with your comparisons, you fail to make an actual point.

[Volitar]

More content for non-raiders makes the game full of busywork? You're just jaded.

I enjoy plenty of things outside raiding. LFG, LFR, and dailys are not part of that list. Might not be so bad for someone who doesn't raid but trying to jungle all crap you have to do to raid and raiding is insane. Farming coins and doing farmville for raiding is really wearing my patience thin.

[MoanaLisa]

Some of it is nostalgia.

All of it is opinion, one way or another.

None of it is actual verifiable and testable fact that applies to all.

Things change. If the game eight years on were very much the same game as vanilla there would be arguments about that.

[unholytestament]

There was though... World PvP fights were some of the most fun fights I ever had in WoW, much more fun than today's Arena or Random Battlegrounds. Even in the case of ganks, your ganker couldn't just mount up on a fly mount and get away, you could easily take him down with your main since both of you had to be on the ground.

OH YEAH! Having to switch to a different character and go to a lower level zone for the sole purpose of killing a guy that has likely already run away ROCKED!

Most 60's didn't even have epic ground mount, so they weren't faster than you either. Today the max level has the advantage of 310 % speed plus flying plus speed perks, whilst the low level only has a ground mount. Even if you get your main you can't catch him. (Not debating whether you should or shouldn't play on a PvP realm so please don't start such a discussion here, I'm perfectly fine on mine and don't regret ever rolling on it.)

The level 60 had the advantage of being level 60 and he could cut through any mobs aggroed like a buzzsaw whereas you were fucked.

[Deleted]

Your point seems to be that the game was different.

I doubt many would argue with that.

I think what he wants to convey is that it's not always nostalgia when people say "Things were better back when!"

And he's right.

The game has progressed so much, it is so much more convenient, so much more accessible. It looks better, it plays smoother, it has more content and overall the polish is just even more shiny than it was in the past.

But along the way the game has lost its soul. The guys working on the game today are unfortunately not the same guys with "the magic touch" that made Blizzard games so special back when(not just a WoW issue, see D3). Yes, most of them have moved on to Titan for a while now and we will see how that goes.
Obviously there are many more reasons, like the playerbase growing in all the wrong places and in all the wrong ways, now making shitty design a necessity. Not even mentioning their pact with the devil (Activision).

Still, there is nostalgia. And then there is hoaxing yourself into contentedness.

[cFortyfive]

Which is really quite sad considering it's supposed to be an RPG, isn't it?

I don't think that this was a design goal after wotlk.

So, how many things have to be super hard for the 1% before you're happy? You already have heroic raiding and high end pvp, what more do you want?

I'd guess you could ask in return if there comes a point where convenience reaches a point where you could just watch a movie instead.

[Boogums]

I enjoy plenty of things outside raiding. LFG, LFR, and dailys are not part of that list. Might not be so bad for someone who doesn't raid but trying to jungle all crap you have to do to raid and raiding is insane. Farming coins and doing farmville for raiding is really wearing my patience thin.

Oh, boo hoo. 4 whole dailies a day you poow baby

If only we could go back to mandatory hours of mat farming to get ready for raiding, that would be much more fun.

[Volitar]

So, how many things have to be super hard for the 1% before you're happy? You already have heroic raiding and high end pvp, what more do you want?

I just feel like the game does too much for you. You don't have to form any groups you just sit on your flying mount and wait for the game to find you a dungeon or raid, they have removed all the group quests from the game, bind on account gear and instant lfg makes leveling retarded, you don't ever have to leave the city.

It's just not the same game anymore

[The Madgod]

Nope I started playing just after the SSC patch.

Serpentshrine Cavern was added in patch 2.0.3, or in other words at the start of the Burning Crusade. That's not vanilla

There was though... World PvP fights were some of the most fun fights I ever had in WoW, much more fun than today's Arena or Random Battlegrounds. Even in the case of ganks, your ganker couldn't just mount up on a fly mount and get away, you could easily take him down with your main since both of you had to be on the ground.

Most 60's didn't even have epic ground mount, so they weren't faster than you either. Today the max level has the advantage of 310 % speed plus flying plus speed perks, whilst the low level only has a ground mount. Even if you get your main you can't catch him. (Not debating whether you should or shouldn't play on a PvP realm so please don't start such a discussion here, I'm perfectly fine on mine and don't regret ever rolling on it.)

The problem that world PvP suffers is that there's no tangible reward from it, not some bullshit to do with flying mounts.

The biggest days of world PvP for me were in TBC's endgame, and flying mounts didn't detract from that. Even to this day there's people who fight over some of those objectives.

If you want world PvP back, ask for more TBC/classic-like PvP objectives in the world. I guarantee the day they add those to relevant content you'll see more people dying outside of battlegrounds and the arena.

[Volitar]

Oh, boo hoo. 4 whole dailies a day you poow baby

If only we could go back to mandatory hours of mat farming to get ready for raiding, that would be much more fun.

Before mop I did a day of fishing and herbing once each month and that was enough flaks, pots, and food to raid. Other than that 1 day of farming I could log in for raid and log out now I feel like I'm forced to spend extra time in game that I don't want to just to raid.

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 02:18 AM ----------

Serpentshrine Cavern was added in patch 2.0.3, or in other words at the start of the Burning Crusade. That's not vanilla

I never said I played in Vanilla.

[unholytestament]

I just feel like the game does too much for you. You don't have to form any groups you just sit on your flying mount and wait for the game to find you a dungeon or raid, they have removed all the group quests from the game, bind on account gear and instant lfg makes leveling retarded, you don't ever have to leave the city.

It's just not the same game anymore

As opposed to finding a group in /2, getting to the instance only to have the tank drop because he forgot he had something to do. Then heading back to town to get another tank and when you finally do the healer leaves because this took too long to get started and that spells the end of the group and you're back in /2 looking for a whole group.

If that's what you guys call soul then I say good riddance.

[cFortyfive]

If you want world PvP back, ask for more TBC/classic-like PvP objectives in the world.

As if anyone was doing these. There was more world pvp on a day on the elemental plateau than in a whole year of hellfire capture points.

[Warloff]

Have a feeling you don't remember the original incarnation of summon stones.

They didn't even summon!

[bohapjut]

You can always find a vanilla server. While fond of vanilla I don't want to repeat the same zones and quests, I'd rather a new environment/IP

You won't get much support here though

[Boogums]

Before mop I did a day of fishing and herbing once each month and that was enough flaks, pots, and food to raid. Other than that 1 day of farming I could log in for raid and log out now I feel like I'm forced to spend extra time in game that I don't want to just to raid.

It's a good thing we're not comparing MoP to anything post Vanilla.

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 01:21 AM ----------

I just feel like the game does too much for you. You don't have to form any groups you just sit on your flying mount and wait for the game to find you a dungeon or raid, they have removed all the group quests from the game, bind on account gear and instant lfg makes leveling retarded, you don't ever have to leave the city.

It's just not the same game anymore

Except you just got done complaining about all the crap you DO have to do. So which is it? Do we sit on our mounts all day and just queue queue, or do we HAVE to SLOG through dailies and ENDLESSLY pick our crops, AND BLAH BLAH ALL THIS CRAP I HAVE TO DO?