Last edited by Theendgamelv3; 2013-04-29 at 07:30 AM.
it is no where near the same game anymore
im used to it changing now
I see a lot of screenshots, but little argument.
Biased plain and simple.
What good are more talents if there are mandatory and largely fixed progression routes in a given spec.
How many of those are not already pre-determined for you ?
Because YOU had plenty of time for organised dungeon/raid content at sociable hours does not mean others did.
The raid/dungeon finders are well suited to those who tend to play at hours where organised groups are few and far between.
And really what did larger numbers bring, except be biased towards larger guilds.
Oh and the "easy mode" is still regularly inhabited by those "elite" raiders who look down on it so much.
So showing an image of two continents and their travel links between them is a suitable comparison to one continent and a single type of transport link all of a sudden ?
There is no point there.
The boats, tram, flight paths still exist.
How would most players get to a raid or dungeon in a pug previously ?
Oh yes, they would sit around on their backside until a few more willing members would actually travel there to do the summons at the stone or for a warlock to farm a stupid amount of shards to provide a taxi service for lazy sods.
It was nothing to do with "casual vs hardcore".
That argument is getting tired, and is completely incorrect because "casual" has nothing to do with skill but about time commitment.
A casual game is one you can pick up for an hour and achieve something in without it being completely wasted if you cant make the same commitment as someone else with more convenient circumstances.
Skill has NOTHING to do with someone being casual or hardcore, but about their ability to plan their life around their play, and not the other way around.
If you really want to tell us that vanilla was this simply superior game, then provide real arguments and be prepared to discuss.
Not just deciding that you are right, and having the only opinion that matters.
You are right about one thing, that not being nostalgia.
But something far worse, Arrogance.
Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-04-29 at 07:56 AM.
I wouldn't want to go back to vanilla, I think mostly because the things I enjoyed about vanilla were more enjoyable because the game was new - like it taking so much time to travel so thew orld felt bigger etc. I'd happily play TBC or WotLK agian though.
Nostalgia people just completely fail at realizing one thing. They keep claiming that the "game used to be immersive", instead of realizing that they used to be immersed. It's a lack of self-awareness and intelligence, really. That's the whole truth of it. And makes a whole lot more sense than seriously trying to convince yourself and others that the game used to be better in its infant stadium 8 years ago.
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The claim stands, because you refuse to even answer simple questions.
I've never said anything like "no one in vanilla ever went afk." But its certainly a much bigger issue.
How do you know I don't spam trade? Oh okay, you don't. I've never even said I don't like the LFR/:LFD tool, you are assuming.
Yes, what others do changes my game. Thats because its a multiplayer game.
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There was always a FP in Westfall I believe. So why you think it would take 10 minutes to run back to SW, I don't understand. There are 3 FPs in Westfall, with 3 quest hubs, so yeah, you don't really have to move that far. Its very similar to just being on a conveyor and having the mobs just come to you.
I'm sorry you don't understand the big picture. Most changes in the game will effect your gaming experience. Many people are complaining that leveling should just be taken out of the game, and this is being considered by Blizzard. Would you welcome that change? If not, what would you do about it? try posting constructively, only to be called many names, while being whined at by people with passive aggressive response, putting words in your mouth, while ignoring most of your posts?
What will they say to you when you ask them simple questions? "Sorry that you preferred the game a different way, GTFO"
---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 04:55 AM ----------
Sure, the feeling of nostalgia is real. But the problem with your argument is the condescending, dismissing attitude that comes with it.
Why Blizzard don't put a button to pass the lvl 1-85 content? I mean, It's fast, u can chose to ignore that button and level if you want, but nowadays, the people want something faster than before. Like fly!! Then put a tool to skip leveling!!
A game is a time-spend machine. No more, no less. More dificult in X things, and more easy in other things. If someone want to do the hard things, theyh need to spend more time in doing that (skill help in reducing the time spend), if you don't have time for that, then you can't do all the things and need to focus in something that you can afford (skills help in doing that off course).
I don't want Vanilla to return, but I want what vanilla gave to us. With the balance, tecnology, quest, diversity, and all the things that improve the gameplay of the later expansions without skiping anything that Vanilla created.
And I'm a casual player, I don't Raid since firelands.
P.D: Sorry for my english.
Btw. group activities are still there. For example the group quest on IoT - people always look to group for those. And from social pov I really love the IoT rare farming where people really seem to work together informing about new spawns and mostly waiting for each other (even those they don't have to).
That's just one little example. The thing is that the group activities you might do with random strangers is much more optional. For me personally it makes it much more valuable because you can fully enjoy it while it's happening instead of being forced into it which often leads to loads of frustration for the one simple reason - not all people are suited to stick around each for longer period of time. Not everyone has to enjoy everyone else. We enjoy spending time with certain type of people. Nowadays the game gives us much more of that freedom of having fun with people we want to stick around.
Also, with the cross realm there are great social initiatives like openraid. I personally don't take part in those since I have no time for that but I've heard a lot of positive feedback about it. Tho when in Cata my guild broke and many of my friends spread to many servers we still did alt raids via realID having tons of fun.
So really, social interaction is not worse than in Vanilla. The possibilities for social interaction are much greater than in Vanilla. The only difference is that you need to chose your way of interaction and look for people alike you to enjoy your gameplay to the fullest. The social interaction is fully in your hands now - the game won't do that for you. In fact in my oppinion it never did because forcing people to play together hardly makes real friendships - it's no different from real life interaction with random people you will most likely never see again in your life. And yes, that applied to Vanilla/TBC times as well - you couldn't possibly make friends with whole server.
Still surprised this threads on going.
So I did some dungeons over the weekend, my friend who I do lfr with was away so I didn't bother to do any raiding.
I got into a fair few groups and for the most part it was a silent run, everyone got in and we just blasted through. A couple of them there was some chit chat. Nothing too bad to be honest with you.
LFD as a system works for me. I can get a group and not have to sit in Org requesting a group and more importantly if hardly any friends/guildies are online I can still get a dungeon group in no time. Mostly while I am questing too.
The leveling aspect of wow I always hated. Well hate is a strong word but get bored of fast I would say better defines it. 1-60 took me weeks to do as I found it hard to get quests done as you often got side tracked (being new and all) or there was a gank fight breaking out. TBC - I knew what I was doing and sometimes found my self ganking/being ganked while doing 60-70 but I disliked the leveling there immensely. It felt boring. Wrath was a lot better the wrathgate and stormpeaks story lines being two outstanding examples. Cata leveling was ok from 80-85 and I liked that it was very story driven although the quality of the cinematics was lower.
Mops leveling for me hit it bang on. I could level fairly quick there was no major challenges for me (has not been really any overly difficult quests asides a few elites in TBC which those were the gronn or nessingwary related ones)
The cinematics in mop were really well done and I loved the fact a lot of the quests involved voice overs. The presentation was really high. As for the story line its really subjective. If you hate the story line that is fine, but the presentation was brilliant. I would have probably enjoyed TBC leveling if it was done in the manner that mops questing was.
I know it will never happen, but this kind of thread makes me wish Blizzard installs a Classic server with the status of the latest patch (Naxx 40) and leave it there. Allow people to only roll fresh character.
Talent trees from back then, no dual specc - etc etc. This should probably finish our discussion to everyone's satisfaction. Maybe that server booms and people flock to it like crazy. Maybe it is a dead wasteland after 3 months. Would be an interesting experiment.
Then again, maybe Blizzard CAN already extrapolate from players current activities if this experiment would float or fail...
I actually loved those long quests
That weapon quest (Whirlwind axe etc) comes to mind. Back when leveling took allot long those quests were really fun and those weapon / items would last you for a 5-10 levels. And those 5-10 levels were usually a few days.
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Only a handfull of people would start playing seriously on these servers anyway. And if those few would be happy doing so, who cares really It's a win-win for both sides
Warrior, getting my face smashed in because I love it
"The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .
For those who have played since classic to MoP.
If you cannot look back on your times in classic with fondness you don't have a heart (or have some serious Alzheimers)
If you cannot recognize how WoW has improved you don't have a brain (or see above).
Nostalgia isn't a bad thing. It's only detrimental when it makes us fail to see things rationally.
Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"
My warlock mount quest was borderline what I could stomach and I hated having to impose on guildies and beg them to go AGAIN to freaking DM, which people were sick of. The Onyxia questline was another example...it would probably have been fine without the 5 man part, which is great if you do it with 4 people who are all on the same stage, but sucks badly if you feel "forced" to help others as your raid group has a constant fluctuation of people leaving and entereing..and the new guys ALWAYS still need that Onyxia attunement. And still you cannot fly...all groundmounts, travel to every place again and again on landmount. Oh yeah..and in some case wait for the poorer players who couldn't afford a mount and were STILL WALKING at lv 60. I spend a lot of time WAITING and NOT playing
Weird that I liked raiding when at the same time Classic WoW gave me a deep hatred of 5 mans which always were a pain to assemble, a pain to travel to and a pain to finish. Maybe it was because I already had a job and family back then...but the looooong afternoon in LBRS / UBRS eventually shattered all interest that would every have existed in dungeon crawls.
But hey...whoever loved it, more power to you. I still believe it worked because we had no comparison back then. I predict that a company who would release a game with the restriction of Classic WoW today might get the eternal love of some die-hard Old school gamers...but most likely not a commercial success.
Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
yea its probably nostalgia
OP, you are right, none can argue that, plain simple.
The problem is that the market changes. WoW wasn't intended to be played for 10 million people, it was intended to be played by around 200k players, we all know that but, what does it mean?
It was launched for a kind of players, the MMORP gamers, people who, as you said, loved immersion role games. However, the game was so good that it called the attention of "a few" more players. TBC definitely proved that (and don't come up with "TBC was bad", because TBC was basically an extension of vanilla with huge improvements, at the same time than the first X-pack). We all remember how the end of X pack nerfs in BC were really lame, Everyone looting tier 6 and even SWP loot for free was really sad to see, but we all know that TBC was over, we were weeks from WOTLK so who could really care?
By the end of TBC Blizzard saw the largest amount of players, in part due to the large nerf to PVE. There it all began, they had to make a choice (which actually came from earlier not just from there), "do we keep the game as it was designed? or do we open it to call other kinds of player profiles?" There it all started to change. If Blizzard (with Activision) wanted to make more money or if they wanted to keep the game as epic as it used to be. Sadly we are humans, therefore greedy.
In my opinion, WoW could have gone way worse considering that they toke the money path. In my opinion, they've been able to open it to the market and yet keep a large part of it's soul. Hoever, it's soul gets colder as time goes by with more and more changes.
---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 10:40 AM ----------
Last edited by shise; 2013-04-29 at 10:40 AM.
Sure, WoW was newer, but I don't think thats relevant to my enjoy of killing Elite Mode Araj the Summoner in Andorhal, or the old Darrowshire, or the Blightcaller. They have deleted all that sort of gameplay while leveling, but why? How was its existence a bad thing? Sure man, I love the new Isle as well. The group quests are great.
I don't buy your "forced social interaction" reasoning. You could pick and choose who to group with back in the day as well. You could start your own group and deny any jerks or ninjas from joining. If anything, what you said describes LFR, as you are either forced to leave, or suck it up when there is a jerk or afker in your group, or hope the other players will kick them.
Again, for the umpteenth time, I am not advocating that Blizzard revert all the changes they've made, I just feel they really need to question their reasoning for many things. Putting 5 Fps in one zone just promotes the feeling that the only important thing to do in WoW is get in raids so you can earn purples, which is a horrible attitude. It says leveling is unimportant, lets get through is asap, so threads that says DELETE LEVELING! pop up.
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Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-04-29 at 10:59 AM.