1. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    the ones who speak about nostalgia are the jealous people who never had a chance to play during vanilla or tbc. So is like a diffensive mechanism of humans, telling themselves "I did not miss anything valuable, it was shit, buggy, blah blah blah"
    I played since the start of WoW and I think "nostalgia" in most topics about "Vanilla was better! This is a fact! Because my opinion. The bad things were also good!". So, not jaelous at all.

  2. #1462
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    That does not necessarily mean that they are wrong though.
    Inversely to your point, one could say that those who say it's not nostalgia are looking through rose-tinted glasses.
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    No, people call it nostalgia because they can remember the good and bad. Although I will agree that far too many people say it without fully understanding its meaning.

    A lot of it is nostalgia though. And I played in Vanilla. I miss some things and I'm glad some things are gone. How are you going to label me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    I played since the start of WoW and I think "nostalgia" in most topics about "Vanilla was better! This is a fact! Because my opinion. The bad things were also good!". So, not jaelous at all.
    I have involved in many conversations about vanilla wow and always, I mean always, most people get caught when they say something about vanilla that is just lie and they prove that they never played that period. Last time I was talking to a guy that he swear that feral druids were using agility as their primary stat in vanilla and strength was useless. The point is that the game is vastly different now. Sure, maybe some comments have a dose of nostalgia but that doesn't make them not true...Is like I am telling my dad that Beatles and Rolling stones was shit and that he speaks with nostalgia about them..
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2013-04-29 at 09:37 PM.
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  3. #1463
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    And I wish people would stop seeing one example and instantly thinking that it applies to every last player. No, all the players do not just stand around all day waiting for a queue to pop. The simple fact that I don't defeats that over-exaggeration instantly.
    The key there was:

    The world feels like it exists for novelty and all anyone does anymore is stand around, waiting for things to happen - or otherwise, plays the game as they would any other single-player game.

    Are you proclaiming you actually go out and do quests, instances or world PvP with friends? I never see any of that happening anymore. I'm sure it still happens on occasion but compared to even Wrath, it can't be more than a small fraction of what it was. Even when I played one of my alts on a PvP server and I did the Dominance Offensive dailies, most everyone left each other alone and 99% of the people I see from my own faction are either just doing dailies or waiting around for Galleon, Nalak or Oon to spawn.
    Last edited by xixixviixiiii; 2013-04-29 at 09:38 PM.

  4. #1464
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    i like questing how i like a book. It has beginning, middle, end. I don't want questing to be like those idiotic novels for kids "if x go to page 4 if y go to page 122" and you spend your whole time flipping through with no coherent story.
    might i suggest an actual book then? rather than a game? because that seems to be what you want, a strictly linear experience, where your desire or input has basically no impact on the direction or order of the events.

    for the life of me i cannot understand why anyone would want a game structured that way.
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  5. #1465
    The Lightbringer MrHappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    the ones who speak about nostalgia are the jealous people who never had a chance to play during vanilla or tbc. So is like a defensive mechanism of humans, telling themselves "I did not miss anything valuable, it was shit, buggy, blah blah blah"



    what I said above...yea, quests in vanilla had no story..right..I loled. also in vanilla I don't remember there was the quest helper addon. Me and my friends we knew all quests without the need of addon...and this is how quests needs to be, make you travel and wonder what to do, not hold your hand..
    1) there is a difference between holding people's hand and spending 1h running around the zone trying to find that item you need to collect. Especially quests in BC that took you from zone to zone to zone to zone in a SINGLE chain. you spent more time on flight paths than you did actually doing the quest chain. Very adventurous.

    2) look up video World of Roguecraft to see problems with balance, game mechanics, quests, absurd grinds. Personally I started playing towards end of BC. Vanila questing was not bad but despite the shiny outland and its (literal) out of this word vibe the zone's epicness quickly faded with how (sarcastic font here) EPIC (/sarcastic font) the quests were. I'm sorry i dare you to look at anyone who played wow since Vanilla and BC and say with a straight face that you enjoyed the questing experience you are either won't be able to bring your self to say it...or you are a very good liar. You don't have to say "i did not miss anything valuable" to say past expansions were not as good as wow is now if you compare it point by point. In fact i WISH i was there for the 1st time seeing rag and what not but on the flip side to that is you sounding like a 70's hippy talking about 'nam with "you weren't there man" .

  6. #1466
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    That's the thing, everyone in this thread has actually agreed that the game is different I think it's quite impossible to deny it.
    It's the rest of the stuff people had issues with.
    yes but the difference is, that people who believe that now is better they think they are 100% right while if someone's opinion is that it was better during vanilla, his comment automatically labeled as nostalgia. What we try to say is that there are lot of people who are actually believe and base their opinion on facts as why they liked vanilla more. Since is a different game, I think they have the right to prefer a different game of what wow is now without get the label of nostalgia

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    1) there is a difference between holding people's hand and spending 1h running around the zone trying to find that item you need to collect. Especially quests in BC that took you from zone to zone to zone to zone in a SINGLE chain. you spent more time on flight paths than you did actually doing the quest chain. Very adventurous
    One of my favorite quests was the videres elixir chain. What you call pointless travelling, I call great immersion and a true adventure. That is the traditional rpg quest, an adventure. Is not take the quest, move 3 feet to the right, kill those rats and come back to get your reward. Also those travelings except the immersion was also usefull social activities..find a mage to port you, meet lot of people on the ship for the other side, e.t.c. I am not say you are false, this is your opinion and your free time is something that you decide how you use it. But what you think as a bad design doesn't mean that everyone else who disagree is because of nostalgia..

    my argue, is not to prove that vanilla was better. For some people was better, for others was not. My problem is that people say, whoever like vanilla is from nostalgia and not because he like that type of gameplay
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2013-04-29 at 09:48 PM.
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  7. #1467
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    i like questing how i like a book. It has beginning, middle, end. I don't want questing to be like those idiotic novels for kids "if x go to page 4 if y go to page 122" and you spend your whole time flipping through with no coherent story. Questing if you bother to read them actually is meant to tell the story of the zone. Prime example is the sylvanas quest chain in SilverPine. actually questing in vanila was nothing BUT obscure for the most part. It is how addons like Questhelper came to pass and thousands of pages on forums were created because even more people literally said "wtf am i supposed to do now?" How is running around lost wondering wtf to do have to do with immersion in any way?

    There should not be diversity UNTIL you are max level. Why? Because if you are new to wow you learn where you come from, and you are guided on a path of a great (insert class here) where at max level you can choose what to do, which faction to support, which role to play. But even so there are crossroads (literal and figurative) that you can choose where to go to advance your personal story/immersion there are at least 2 zones for every level group you can choose. Every continent has a different story from start to finish.

    The monotony you speak of is because by now most people have played every race (if not every class) at least once (not saying maxed level but at least out of the starting zone). You have seen all possible stories. So when you have to play ANOTHER class through the same zone all over again yea you want to skip all of it. When Cata came out people were complaining that some zones took TOO LITTLE time due to all the xp boost and people took off the gear till outland so they can see all the new stories and what not.
    I'll agree that zones telling a story is nice. But it was nice, being able to go into a zone, and see some variety if you decided to go on a side quest. Outland is a nice contrast when you get over there from the revamped areas, though I'm sure some would call it poorly placed, scattered, etc.. I personally think there should be more forks in the road, rather than less. Granted, there are cases where you have a split in the tracks based on what entire zone you want to see next, even after the revamp.

    As far as folks going "what do I do now?" Explore? Search? Investigate, trial and error? Isn't that the point to such things in a game like this? I came into the game late, but questing, aside from a few oddballs here and there, always seemed rather obvious, even before you had tool tips on the mobs as to who dropped what.

  8. #1468
    The Lightbringer MrHappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    might i suggest an actual book then? rather than a game? because that seems to be what you want, a strictly linear experience, where your desire or input has basically no impact on the direction or order of the events.

    for the life of me i cannot understand why anyone would want a game structured that way.
    I'm playing the devils advocate. From a developer's standpoint you want to do two things 1) tell the story YOU (as the developer) want to tell and 2) give people some choice. The key word here is SOME. That's why i say you have a one or two choice per level group as to how YOU (the gamer) want to develop your character and impact the game while at the same time not go from learning how to do basic attack to slaying mighty elites to enlist in a training camp to prepare you for the war against the threat of the realm. It does not have to be a strict linear experience but it can't take you where you want to go when you want to go there. WoW has a story that needs to be told a certain way. The story would not make sense if you went from Brill to Searing Gorge to Tarren Mill to Swamp of sorrows to STV. As you level you need to have a sense that you are fighting bigger/badder things, getting stronger, becoming more powerful. Tell me how can that be accomplished without some sort of linear direction?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 09:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The problem with the nostalgia argument is that the reason you just gave works both ways.
    When people argue over it, it is usually because the first person says that they are 100% right that it isn't nostalgia and that the game was, without doubt, better in the past.

    Otherwise, yeah, opinions are opinions.
    Not to mention they say their opinions as facts and disregard any progress made to the game and can't look at any aspects objectively because in the past they had an awesome time with friends and now it is not the case as it was in the past. Correlation does not imply causation and people have a hard time understanding that their correlation with the fun they had playing the game for first time does not cause it to be better in the past.

  9. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I actually do. I'm an officer and we make it a point to have the guild do things together. Unless nobody wants to on that day of course
    I won't deny that people are more likely to play on their own these days though. At least while doing dailies and quests and such. Though on my current server, people tend to get groups for the dailies to make them faster. Actually recruited a few new members that way lol
    Wow. I mean, seriously - my main is on a high-pop server and I never see that kind of stuff anymore. I miss running around in a zone and receiving random whispers asking if I wanted to do a dungeon or if I could help with a quest. I was even the kind of person that usually would help if I had time.

    Either way, I certainly would not call your situation the norm (at least, not anymore). I kid you not, interacting with people is actually borderline hard now. Every time you see pugs (for anything) the expectation is that you know exactly what to do and you're super efficient because no one wants to spend one minute more than they have to, doing anything.

  10. #1470
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    1) there is a difference between holding people's hand and spending 1h running around the zone trying to find that item you need to collect. Especially quests in BC that took you from zone to zone to zone to zone in a SINGLE chain. you spent more time on flight paths than you did actually doing the quest chain. Very adventurous.

    2) look up video World of Roguecraft to see problems with balance, game mechanics, quests, absurd grinds. Personally I started playing towards end of BC. Vanila questing was not bad but despite the shiny outland and its (literal) out of this word vibe the zone's epicness quickly faded with how (sarcastic font here) EPIC (/sarcastic font) the quests were. I'm sorry i dare you to look at anyone who played wow since Vanilla and BC and say with a straight face that you enjoyed the questing experience you are either won't be able to bring your self to say it...or you are a very good liar. You don't have to say "i did not miss anything valuable" to say past expansions were not as good as wow is now if you compare it point by point. In fact i WISH i was there for the 1st time seeing rag and what not but on the flip side to that is you sounding like a 70's hippy talking about 'nam with "you weren't there man" .
    I have played since 4 months after WOW's release maybe less started in January after it released. I have never nor will I ever enjoy any quest at any time, in any game. I hate questing with a passion, always have always will. I just leveled a priest 1-90 and hit the 250 quests complete achievement at level 85, I believe they should make as many alternatives to questing as possible. I only enjoy dungeons and raids, has always been that way for me. So I will say that I loved BC/ Wrath still the best expansions, but I hated leveling since the day I started. I want to have perma SOR option.

  11. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Hum, most transfers to higher population realms are to escape the dead ends of shit realms, not to get "carried"(what does that even mean? Carried by what?)

    And what do you mean casuals took over wow? Casual players always were the majority of players, even in vanilla(just look at the % of raiders for total population).
    Most people don't want to make communities on less populated servers otherwise they'd try harder. They want to be carried.

    Casual gamers remade this game in their image, and now there's nothing left but a hollow shell of a game with cuddly pandas bouncing up and down.

  12. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I actually do. I'm an officer and we make it a point to have the guild do things together. Unless nobody wants to on that day of course
    I won't deny that people are more likely to play on their own these days though. At least while doing dailies and quests and such. Though on my current server, people tend to get groups for the dailies to make them faster. Actually recruited a few new members that way lol
    Considering Blizzard BRIBES tanks and healers (well........sometimes healers) to queue without their friends, I mean c'mon how can you deny that Blizzard is making this a lobby/single player game?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    I'm playing the devils advocate. From a developer's standpoint you want to do two things 1) tell the story YOU (as the developer) want to tell and 2) give people some choice. The key word here is SOME. That's why i say you have a one or two choice per level group as to how YOU (the gamer) want to develop your character and impact the game while at the same time not go from learning how to do basic attack to slaying mighty elites to enlist in a training camp to prepare you for the war against the threat of the realm. It does not have to be a strict linear experience but it can't take you where you want to go when you want to go there. WoW has a story that needs to be told a certain way. The story would not make sense if you went from Brill to Searing Gorge to Tarren Mill to Swamp of sorrows to STV. As you level you need to have a sense that you are fighting bigger/badder things, getting stronger, becoming more powerful. Tell me how can that be accomplished without some sort of linear direction?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 09:51 PM ----------



    Not to mention they say their opinions as facts and disregard any progress made to the game and can't look at any aspects objectively because in the past they had an awesome time with friends and now it is not the case as it was in the past. Correlation does not imply causation and people have a hard time understanding that their correlation with the fun they had playing the game for first time does not cause it to be better in the past.
    To be fair people who claim it's better now state it is fact as well, stop making us who found it better in Vanilla/BC the bad guys who nerd rage that we are right when those who claim it's better now do the same thing.

  13. #1473
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Quoting Osmeric to support a common-sense point: Immersion is only mildly related to difficulty. Overly difficult games aren't immersive at all. There's nothing immersive about multiple corpse runs while attempting to complete a quest. Dying repeatedly takes you out of the story more than immersing you into it.
    Good point. I as well don't recall leveling in Vanilla being especially hard (and I did level as a balance druid :P ). It was loooooooong.

    As for the immersion, Cata and MoP questing are for me far more immersive than Vanilla and TBC (Wrath sits in the middle). I am immersed by a story and WoW with the new questing system tells the story much better. All the little things about those quests and how they work out together make we wanna know more - make me care for the story. In Vanilla and TBC quests were only there to give me exp because only very few of them actually told a story in a way that made me dive into in.

    As someone smart earlier pointed out immersion is quite subjective so I can't question if someone was more immersed by earlier WoW or not. Something I do know for sure tho is that I am much more immersed with the new WoW therefor statement that WoW was a more immersive game back in the day can't set as a fact because it's only a subjective oppinion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 08:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    the ones who speak about nostalgia are the jealous people who never had a chance to play during vanilla or tbc. So is like a diffensive mechanism of humans, telling themselves "I did not miss anything valuable, it was shit, buggy, blah blah blah"
    Where do you people come up with bs like this :P I did play during whole Vanilla and whole TBC and for me it's all about nostalgia. Is it really so hard to find that different people see things differently? There is plenty of people who played back in the day and don't miss a thing about how the game was (I personally only miss my guild from those times). And I was actually pretty hardcore player with the exception that I didn't switch guilds for better epix.

    what I said above...yea, quests in vanilla had no story..right..I loled. also in vanilla I don't remember there was the quest helper addon. Me and my friends we knew all quests without the need of addon...and this is how quests needs to be, make you travel and wonder what to do, not hold your hand..
    It's not that vanilla quests didn't have story. It's that the presentation was kinda dull and uninteresting if you compare it with how it is now. And with quest being spread so much around the world you could actually get lost in the story while doing several chains at the same time. I personally started carrying for the story due to raiding and got my info not from quests but from various sites. In Pandaria I know all there is to know from questing only. I actually finished several chains even tho I didn't need anything from them just to see how the story ends. Yes, for me MoP questing is THAT good.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 08:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    I have involved in many conversations about vanilla wow and always, I mean always, most people get caught when they say something about vanilla that is just lie and they prove that they never played that period. Last time I was talking to a guy that he swear that feral druids were using agility as their primary stat in vanilla and strength was useless.
    Maybe he haven't played a feral druid? :P You think you remember everything so clearly out of your head from those times? I know I don't and some changes are a bit blury when it comes to when exactly they happened. That doesn't prove that someone did not play back then.

    The point is that the game is vastly different now. Sure, maybe some comments have a dose of nostalgia but that doesn't make them not true...Is like I am telling my dad that Beatles and Rolling stones was shit and that he speaks with nostalgia about them..
    Those comments are true when their authors agree that they are not a fact but their oppinion. Noone can negate ones subjective feelings about something. The fact is also that fond memories about the past are always heavily influenced by nostalgia. This is how our mind works.

    If you tell me "WoW was better in Vanilla" I'll tell you that from my point of view it's a false statement. If you tell me "I had more fun in Vanilla" I can't really negate it.
    If you tell me "WoW was more immersive during Vanilla" I'll tell you it's false because I am much more immersed now than in Vanilla. If you tell me "I was more immersed in Vanilla" I can't negate it.

    And now, when we are talking about oppinions you really don't need to give arguments to back them up because those arguments will apply ONLY to your oppinion and will be false for someone who doesn't feel as you do. And when you are trying to argument your oppinion you are trying to pose it as a fact which will annoy people who don't feel the same way.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 08:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xixixviixiiii View Post
    Are you proclaiming you actually go out and do quests, instances or world PvP with friends? I never see any of that happening anymore.
    The moment anyone realized that group quests are not worth the effort, noone really did questing together in Vanilla.
    After starting raiding noone really did 5 mans anymore therefor server with raiding progression had less and less 5 man groups going around. Not to mention how 5 man instances were pretty much dead during leveling since looking for group was nothing but waste of time.
    And world PvP is dead since the BGs were introduced.

    It's not Blizzard that changed that. Is the people. Blizzard just followed what was already happening.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 08:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xixixviixiiii View Post
    Wow. I mean, seriously - my main is on a high-pop server and I never see that kind of stuff anymore. I miss running around in a zone and receiving random whispers asking if I wanted to do a dungeon or if I could help with a quest. I was even the kind of person that usually would help if I had time.
    I see tons of interaction on the IoT nowadays. People looking for groups for the group quests and spontanious running around doing rares informing everyone about the new spawn. In fact yesterday I've spend over an hour on my alt running around with the same people to do rares - we have grouped because I knew the fastest routes and since I run around as a tank it was handy to have someone to speed up the killing. And you know why this works? Because it's current content and many people will be there. If you happened to have this kind of area during leveling process it would be skipped. That's why group quests and dungeons were fast abandoned by people during Vanilla and later.

    Either way, I certainly would not call your situation the norm (at least, not anymore). I kid you not, interacting with people is actually borderline hard now. Every time you see pugs (for anything) the expectation is that you know exactly what to do and you're super efficient because no one wants to spend one minute more than they have to, doing anything.
    And you think it didn't happen before? I played a balance druid in TBC and people did not want to pug 5 mans with me because they believed this spec is not good enough to carry them thru the 5 mans. Yet I did them all with my guildies and we did a great job (healers loved me because I knew how to help them in rough moments). It was always about time - everyone prefered to group with a a good tank, a healer with normal res (they didn't want to group with resto druids because that ment they had to run back after a wipe) and preferably 3 mages to have 3 CC (sometimes other classes were considered if there were mobs that could not be polimorphed). The self proclaimed elitism was always there but at least now with the automated tools it's less painfull because you can enjoy the game and let those "i know better how you should play the game" clap their mouths all they want.

  14. #1474
    I had a nostalgia moment the other day.

    Doing TK for the ashes. Went through the Dark portal directly for a change. It brought back some fond memories of TBC launch night. As for the expacs. I've generally been excited for each one. I think the one I was most excited about was probably TBC as it was the 1st one. But MOP as a whole has been a blast for me. I for one am hoping its a legion XPAC, would be even happier if we have to to it via one of the unused portals in outland.

  15. #1475
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    why is nostalgia bad? If you genuily had a good time during vanilla, TBC or wolk, why is it bad to remember it fondly?
    I you aren't having as much fun today, why is it bad to think you prefer previous expansion?

  16. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    why is nostalgia bad? If you genuily had a good time during vanilla, TBC or wolk, why is it bad to remember it fondly?
    I you aren't having as much fun today, why is it bad to think you prefer previous expansion?
    Nostalgia isn't bad It's bad if you blame the change for why you don't feel as good about things as you did in the past as it's mostly nostalgia speaking. Simply keep your nostalgia in the right place - don't throw blame around basing on it.

  17. #1477
    Besides playing back in the days, I have now played first vanilla and Cata, then vanilla and MoP side by side for nearly 2 years. Recently dropped MoP because it simply didn't interest me anymore and vanilla itself has far more interesting and in depth leveling systems and curve in place that entertains me more.

    If I can "suffer" vanilla as so many has put it for past 1.5 years or so without a hitch, and it still remains nostalgy, then so be it, I don't care as I am enjoying my time.
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  18. #1478
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    Nostalgia isn't bad It's bad if you blame the change for why you don't feel as good about things as you did in the past as it's mostly nostalgia speaking. Simply keep your nostalgia in the right place - don't throw blame around basing on it.
    but the game did change. Lets say wow1 and wow2. wow1 was very different than wow2. You can normally don't like wow2 and actually blame the changes that have been made, and you can normally like the wow1 with no nostalgia in it. If wow2 was the same as wow1 then your point would be true . about your previous post that you answered to me for quests..I understand that you like it how it is now and your opinion is that now is better.

    Although there are many people that hate linear questing and find it very boring and they prefer a more "free" system of questing with lot of traveling and not because of nostalgia, they like it in new MMOs also. Why is so hard to believe it and you think is because of nostalgia..I also play lotro now and I like the quests very much and they have lot of traveling, they are in no way linear and also you don't have teleports and fly mounts. And I prefer it 100x times from questing in wow or in tera for example..

    Lastly, there are so many private servers of vanilla wow and as much tbc too, with thousands of people playing now and very actively.
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  19. #1479
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    All of thoses things are better on the MoP screenshot than on the vanilla one.

  20. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    snip

    So we are all kinda different...
    This hits notes with me. I don't really remember it well because I probably stamped out part of those memories, but WoW was tremendously difficult in the leveling stages back when I was a critically inept gamer. I honestly can't remember WHY I continued leveling my paladin to the upper 40s when my talent page was blank (ignorance is devastating), I was decked out in gear "Of the Bear" and was swinging a quest blue that I got from the level 20 paladin class quest. All I remember was around that time I came to the conclusion that I was a giant walking derping idiot and that I needed to fix it.

    Rerolled warrior, thotbot and wowhead open constantly, 1-60 in 1/5th the time it took my paladin to get to 48. That leveling experience was tremendously uplifting though, I did it guildless and became recognized in pvp for my clunky but persistent play and was finally able to join a raiding guild early BC which would become the core of my online friends for the next... many years.

    I still play in MoP, now raid lead for the guildies who took a chance at recruiting a high-school nobody early BC, on the very paladin that died years ago to diseased bears two levels below him. It's a strange thing to think back on that, had I given up, everything would be so different. I wouldn't change anything given the choice though, I loved what wow was back then, and I love it now too. Different reasons, but if you find something that makes you appreciate a game like WoW then I'd say there's no harm in playing, and a lot of truth in a bit of nostalgia.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

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