1. #1

    DK and haste values

    I have been saying it for a while. But why does everyone continue to value haste so high. Anytime two runes of the same type are off CD haste loses essentially 33.3% of it's value.

    Someone show me some deeper thinking into haste beyond oh everyone says this so it must be true.

  2. #2
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Uhm... what?

    If two runes of the same type are off CD, haste loses 80% of it's value...
    But if 2 same runes are off CD you waste DpS, so you never let that happen!
    Problem fixed and haste doesn't lose its value.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    Uhm... what?

    If two runes of the same type are off CD, haste loses 80% of it's value...
    But if 2 same runes are off CD you waste DpS, so you never let that happen!
    Problem fixed and haste doesn't lose its value.
    I have been trying to experiment with my dk . Ilvl 501 doing tot currently and i have used askmrrobot for gemming and reforging and it has stacked haste to 80.88% and my strength is 13.600 . I decided to swap some gems and use relic of xeun so now im at 78% haste and 15.600 strength should i go with the latter and stack abit more stength or go with what that site says? I only have the ten man starshatter sword so i kno that wont be great in tot

  4. #4
    I'm sitting at 79.66% haste on my DK right now. I'm 2h Frost. I've noticed a big difference in raids. When I was at lower percentages I was always having spots in fights where I could do nothing for several seconds before a rune got of CD. Now it rarely happens to me even during Soul Reaper phases. I am not positive if there is a point when you have enough haste. I'd just stack haste until you feel comfortable with the rate your runes regen, and you rarely notice dead spots then you can go for strength.

  5. #5
    High Overlord
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    I don't know about the accuracy of AskMrRobot, but when I asked him to optimize my character, showed me that I should gem pure haste which is not valid, unless your are fighting a dummy. Gemming for haste may be worth it for a high ilvl (>522 or even 530), but then again you will have so much haste from gear that won't be necessary. I haven't raid much that tier, so i can't tell by my own experience, but although haste is a great stat, it loses its value when you are away from the target, which is what Nyanmaru said above.

  6. #6
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Haste is more valuable on lower item levels than on higher item levels but it rarely trumps strength.
    The higher your haste goes the more valuable stats like crit or mastery become and may eventually overtake haste in terms of DpS increase.

    That being said, stat values are not a set in stone but vary (even if only a little) with every piece of gear and every buff/debuff/encounter you add to the mix.

  7. #7
    Using AskMrRobot to "optimize" your gear is ALWAYS less optimal than using your brain for gemming and an addon like ReforgeLite for reforging. I have found the Robot's reforging choices always hilariously bad.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Using AskMrRobot to "optimize" your gear is ALWAYS less optimal than using your brain for gemming and an addon like ReforgeLite for reforging. I have found the Robot's reforging choices always hilariously bad.
    It's a "robot" after all, if you don't give it the correct imputs it will always mess things up.
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  9. #9
    Better play Unholy :3

  10. #10
    Gemming haste as 2h frost is generally frowned upon, I run str in red sockets (and sockets that aren't worth the bonus) str/haste in yellow and str/stam in blue (that have socket bonus worth losing 80 str for) you could gem str/hit but most of us are over hit cap :-P.

  11. #11
    Can't go wrong with [Str&preferred stat] gems :P

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerzgul View Post
    I have been saying it for a while. But why does everyone continue to value haste so high. Anytime two runes of the same type are off CD haste loses essentially 33.3% of it's value.
    Why are you sitting there watching yourself auto attack when you could be using abilities?

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Noah37's Avatar
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    I had actually wondered about this, but I figured none of the other stats were any better. But I also don't understand why people say 2 Handed Death Knights shouldn't use Blood Tap. It seems to work pretty well for me, however my computer has been out of order for a while and I'm using a borrowed laptop and do not have Recount or any numbers. I just know I hit 300k crits and it makes me smile haha.

    By the way, I like the Brolaf costume.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    Haste is more valuable on lower item levels than on higher item levels but it rarely trumps strength.
    The higher your haste goes the more valuable stats like crit or mastery become and may eventually overtake haste in terms of DpS increase.

    That being said, stat values are not a set in stone but vary (even if only a little) with every piece of gear and every buff/debuff/encounter you add to the mix.
    From my simming last night then Haste is only rising in value the higher ilvl you go. Not worth gemming over Strength but Haste is our best secondary stat by a good margin the higher up the gear ladder you climb.

    Could have something to do with the RPPM Trinkets but on a patchwerk sim in 522 gear then 2 Haste>1 Str.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    From my simming last night then Haste is only rising in value the higher ilvl you go. Not worth gemming over Strength but Haste is our best secondary stat by a good margin the higher up the gear ladder you climb.

    Could have something to do with the RPPM Trinkets but on a patchwerk sim in 522 gear then 2 Haste>1 Str.
    Agreed, haste is awesome and RPPM trinkets/legendary meta might raise its value a bit... But, for 2H frost it's never quite on the level of "simmed" DPS due to AMS absorbs/movement mechanics and whatnot. Same goes for unholy seeing as you'll be using a 1rune ability a lot of the time, past the whole "9040 haste gargoyle doing more damage" (which is changing in 5.3 anyway) thing you'll be overwhelmed with runes during UF/heroism, especially if you chuck AMS absorbs and sudden doom procs into the mix.

    Still, never bother with haste-only gems, use str+haste in yellow sockets (2H frost and unholy) and just reforge to haste at your heart's content. For 2H frost I doubt you could reach a point in non-BiS gear this tier where haste loses so much value that you should reforge to crit. For unholy just go for as much haste as you're comfortable with IMO.
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  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Sunnydee's Avatar
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    Still, never bother with haste-only gems, use str+haste in yellow sockets (2H frost and unholy) and just reforge to haste at your heart's content.
    ok so im going fully haste pretty much. both forge n gem wise "see armory below if so desire"

    and still only around 9k and i consider this low, i do have the shado pan trinket but id prefer 1000 straight up str than exp and haste with str proc.

    am i doing this completly wrong? i remember when i was around 5k haste. it floated pretty nice in rotation. then i hitted 7k and it got chunky. hitting 9k now and feels "ok". but in what ur saying can i go back to 5-6k or is that "to low" ? cuz i wanna raise my str, feels like im not doing as good dps as i should, or what would you consider valid dps for my gear?

    2h frost btw

  17. #17
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    ok so im going fully haste pretty much. both forge n gem wise "see armory below if so desire"

    and still only around 9k and i consider this low, i do have the shado pan trinket but id prefer 1000 straight up str than exp and haste with str proc.

    am i doing this completly wrong? i remember when i was around 5k haste. it floated pretty nice in rotation. then i hitted 7k and it got chunky. hitting 9k now and feels "ok". but in what ur saying can i go back to 5-6k or is that "to low" ? cuz i wanna raise my str, feels like im not doing as good dps as i should, or what would you consider valid dps for my gear?

    2h frost btw
    Just doing basic reforges/regems on your gear (using askmrrobot) shows that, with strength gems (str+hit/str/str+haste) you can still get 7105 haste. I'd wager that's better overall than gemming pure haste, even if it doesn't feel as good.

    Edit: I used your armory... Swap the DMV for the shado pan trinket.
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  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Sunnydee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    Just doing basic reforges/regems on your gear (using askmrrobot) shows that, with strength gems (str+hit/str/str+haste) you can still get 7105 haste. I'd wager that's better overall than gemming pure haste, even if it doesn't feel as good.

    Edit: I used your armory... Swap the DMV for the shado pan trinket.

    how do u set askmrrobot for those stats.. i get more haste then i currently got + setting me below caps. also the shado pan trinket is not the old shado pan but the assult one.

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