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  1. #21
    No, it + subterfuge is way too damned strong. They need to be on the same tier.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broods View Post
    That will change nothing. Rogues will just move to one of the other burstier talents and people will cry to nerf burst.

    If you ask the community this is what would happen:

    Sutrefuge reworked to only give 1 second of stealth.
    Ambush and Evsicerate straight 30% damage nerf.
    Cloak of shadows on 3 minute cooldown.
    Removal of preparation.
    Shadow dance moved to a 3 minute cooldown.

    Pretty much anyone not a rogue will think this is a good list of future nerfs combined with the nerfs that are now on ptr. Only it will of course totally remove rogues from PvP.
    Subterfuge reworked to granting access to using ambush/garrote/cheap shot for 3 seconds after stealth breaks. No longer gives you 3 seconds of stealth.

    That's what I'd like to see. Nothing more frustrating of getting a rogue out of stealth, him panicking, running away and restealthing again after 2 seconds...

  3. #23
    Pit Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Trying to remember now how wide the radius is for flare... What I liked about C&D the most as assassination was being able to trump some of the more annoying AOE spam.

  4. #24
    You guys are melee, wtf are you QQ'ing about range for.
    For rogues it should all be melee range if you asked me.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Kanalje View Post
    You guys are melee, wtf are you QQ'ing about range for.
    For rogues it should all be melee range if you asked me.
    Melee range gap closer that sounds useful.

  6. #26
    "Big"? This is a minor nerf, really hope they'd remove the talent instead, it's a pretty stupid talent.

  7. #27
    People who say this is a small nerf probably never PvP. This is a huge nerf, 20 yards is nothing. Thanks blizzard for ruining rogues again.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
    People who say this is a small nerf probably never PvP. This is a huge nerf, 20 yards is nothing. Thanks blizzard for ruining rogues again.
    Shadowstep is only 24 yards and that's hardly "nothing"

    Good change. Limits CnD's usefulness to a gap closer during dance as opposed to an ability where you CC everybody on the other team every time you dance/stealth/vanish.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
    People who say this is a small nerf probably never PvP. This is a huge nerf, 20 yards is nothing. Thanks blizzard for ruining rogues again.
    I play a rogue and I only do PvP, this nerf isn't close to enough. C&D makes you unpeelable, which is pretty stupid. The talent also favours sub which it shouldn't, it needs a complete redesign or removal and replaced with something else.

    Also "ruining rogues" wow how clueless are you?
    Last edited by Aceveda; 2013-04-25 at 05:54 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Shadowstep is only 24 yards and that's hardly "nothing"

    Good change. Limits CnD's usefulness to a gap closer during dance as opposed to an ability where you CC everybody on the other team every time you dance/stealth/vanish.
    If you cc the whole team every vanish and shadowdance you will do no dmg and the cc only lasts 4secs with 5.3 changes.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    If you cc the whole team every vanish and shadowdance you will do no dmg and the cc only lasts 4secs with 5.3 changes.
    It's kind of irrelevant whether you do damage or not. With the way CnD is right now (and including the 5.3 nerfs) and in RBGs, you can stun 3 healers for 4 seconds each, then silence them all for another 4 seconds each before your dance runs out. That's plenty of time for however many DPS you have to kill the FC. This change doesn't actually stop that from potentially happening, but it makes that situation impossible for you if the other team spreads out far enough. Which should really be the goal: allowing the other team to counter your abilities.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    It's kind of irrelevant whether you do damage or not. With the way CnD is right now (and including the 5.3 nerfs) and in RBGs, you can stun 3 healers for 4 seconds each, then silence them all for another 4 seconds each before your dance runs out. That's plenty of time for however many DPS you have to kill the FC. This change doesn't actually stop that from potentially happening, but it makes that situation impossible for you if the other team spreads out far enough. Which should really be the goal: allowing the other team to counter your abilities.
    120 energy used 4's of reg time you'd have 56 energy with snd going when its time to silence all three for even higher energy costs (135 energy to do that). So thats cool I didn't know rogues had 255 energy with only 4sec reg time. Also all healers and range have a 40 yard range which means they can out range it now.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    120 energy used 4's of reg time you'd have 56 energy with snd going when its time to silence all three for even higher energy costs (135 energy to do that). So thats cool I didn't know rogues had 255 energy with only 4sec reg time. Also all healers and range have a 40 yard range which means they can out range it now.
    You're right, he could only stun 3 and silence 2. Still a ridiculous amount of control for a melee to be able to have at 30 yards.

    Rogues were going to get nerfed this patch because they deserve it. You should be glad that Blizz came up with reasonable nerfs (.5 off each stun and silence and 10 yards off CnD) instead of going overboard and nerfing your damage like they would have in the past. If anything yall got off lightly so far.
    Last edited by Neazy; 2013-04-25 at 06:48 PM.

  14. #34
    ITT: people who never heard of cc effects on a rogue.

    Meanwhile dk+boomkin aoegrip into silence vortex unchanged. Balance 101

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Shadowstep is only 24 yards and that's hardly "nothing"

    Good change. Limits CnD's usefulness to a gap closer during dance as opposed to an ability where you CC everybody on the other team every time you dance/stealth/vanish.
    That was the good thing about cloak and dagger though. This will barely be a gap closer if its 20 yards though. Blink is 20 yards, and displacer beast is 20 yards. They should at least make a glyph to increase cloak and daggers range by 5-10 yards.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
    That was the good thing about cloak and dagger though. This will barely be a gap closer if its 20 yards though. Blink is 20 yards, and displacer beast is 20 yards. They should at least make a glyph to increase cloak and daggers range by 5-10 yards.
    The thing about range abilities in wow is that they work from 1 extra yard away. There used to be situations where hunters could stand at 41 yards and DPS while they outranged boss abilities with a 40 yard range, even though hunter shots technically only had a 40 yard range. No idea if that's the case for CnD (it might work differently because it's technically not a ranged ability), but if it is, you should still be able to port to a mage after he blinks.

  17. #37
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    I like how you contradict yourself.
    How am I contradicting myself?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 08:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Subterfuge reworked to granting access to using ambush/garrote/cheap shot for 3 seconds after stealth breaks. No longer gives you 3 seconds of stealth.

    That's what I'd like to see. Nothing more frustrating of getting a rogue out of stealth, him panicking, running away and restealthing again after 2 seconds...
    This is actually a REALLY good idea. It should be a shadow dance, not actual stealth. Removes the anti-noob protection aswell as the OP factor from the talent and doesn't make it any less useful.

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonslid View Post
    Yeah, this will ruin rogues completly. They will no longer be the top FotM!
    You are half right. Time for the flavor of the month people to find a new class to jump ship to.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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    Good is the enemy of great.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    Only place I see this is in the datamined stuff, but I'm not on the PTR so what would I know.

    But if you're going by what is datamined, then don't. Datamined doesn't always mean it'll happen.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
    Wishblade of Draenor EU

  20. #40
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
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    what's that, a melee class has to be closer to the target to actually hit with their abilities? madness... if I was GC i'd make everything melee range... hitting from the back of the yard when you are supposed to be melee shouldn't happen...

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