Last edited by Sarevokcz; 2013-04-29 at 04:09 PM.
Shamans being fail class is fine in GC book
Last edited by Endus; 2013-04-29 at 05:11 PM.
I am also facing same issues as Gendori.
For single-target, BOTH for the PE/AS and Echo/EB talent combinations, I'm getting very little difference in single target DPS for all stat combinations. (that is to say, my secondary stats are roughly equal)
HOWEVER, for 5-target cleave (and I suspect 3 target), Crit > Haste > Mastery seems the way to go. As opposed to Mastery being the best stat for cleaving.
Is there an explanation for why this is?
Its like Crit>=Mastery>>>>>Haste
Its kind of easy to explain why
1)Crit doesnt scale with LvB, When youre cleaving/AoEing, LvB is less of your damage, hence crit is affecting more of your damage, add in the spellpower buff and Voila, Crit is powerful
2)Mastery is a beast on 3 or more targets with Chain lightning
3)Crit double dips from your mastery, Since Mastery is really good on 3 or more targets, your crit will naturally scale with it
4) Too much haste will definiltey GCD lock your chain lightning, devaluing haste for more targets
In my current reforge, putting Crit first (my weights are still C > H > M, as opposed to what you put), has virtually no impact on my single target. So I'm rolling with it for single and multi target. Gonna test it on my raid after reset :P
I never optimise for AoE, and am running more of a H = M > C priority. Once I pick up either 4pc or LMG (Legendary Meta Gem) I'll switch to a proper M > H > C build. This will only be <1% lower than a H > M > C build, but with the added bonuses of no awkward sub 1 sec casts & better AoE dps.
I've heard this mentioned before about switching to a mastery build when players have the 4pc and/or LMG, which is something I am currently fortunate enough to have. However, even after obtaining both of these and running a simc, it is still telling me that H>M>C; is there any particular reason why? I've heard a lot of shammies state that you should be switching to M>H>C or even C=M>H (I suppose for the AoE dmg) but Simc point-blank refuses to agree with that.
I am told that Simc accounts for all the potential haste increases; so it would surely recognise that you'd spend a lot of time - especially under hero - under the GCD cap when casting LvB. If this is the case, why does it still state that H>M>C? Is it because LB is still our highest damaging spell (not hardest hitting, but does the most dmg over the course of a fight...unless it's AoE ofc) or am I running something incorrectly in simc that people might think is obvious?
I don't have 2 piece nor any RPPM trinkets but have the legendary meta and SPA trinket and for me it's Mastery > haste > crit for single target (although very close).
I've made reforge plots and the difference between full mastery and full haste reforge is only 0,1% so I've also went full mastery and find it more enjoyable to play.
Those sub1 casts I find a bit annoying, if i press the next ability at the end of the cast, it doesn't get in the spell queue and I'm mashing my keys old school style >.<
Hmmm...just re-ran it on "light movement" instead of "heavy movement" and it does in fact state M=>H>C...must have been me. Gonna try re-sim it on multiple targets as well.
I've got no idea where this C=M>H build style comes from, unless you're talking about AoE only.
After 7000 haste if I kept reforging more forsaking mastery, it only worked out to a .7% DPS gain single target. Its at this point for me I decided to go Mastery > Haste
Your Mileage may vary
At lower gear levels, like what you have, the H>M gearing focus still applies, as I've mentioned before (and in the guide).
You accuse me before of trying to give too simple an answer to a complex question and then you go ahead and tel me in wrong and give me a blanket go H>M response.
Keep in Mind your sample T15H profile is optimized for SINGLE TARGET DPS only, and does not necessarily apply to the fights in this raid tier
Lets take this a step back for a second. Why have you been looking into AoE stat weights? Are you advocating for a second gearset focusing on AoE centric stats?
Not that I have been looking into AoE stat weights so much, but I dont hear it discussed a Lot when it should play a role in reforging decisions. People focus far too much on Patchwerk DPS. On this, we are on the weaker end of the spectrum. Not enough people know or understand that things change when you add targets. If there is someone stuck on a progression fight for their guild, or trying to get a WoL rank, knowing this imformation will definitley be helpful. All I see everywhere in every guide is this standard simple Haste > mastery > crit when the answer is much much more complicated than that, and people should know that on some fights, they can squeeze out more performance if they did it differently.
However Im not blind and have not completely forsaken Patchwerk DPS either, As I have continually said, In my current profile setup, If I reforge into even More haste, I can only get it from Mastery, doing so will ONLY net me less than a .8% dps gain on single target. I feel at this point it is a fair tradeoff to forsake this .6-.8% gain and reforge into stats that better suit Cleave/AoE situations of which there are plenty during this tier.
If I really really wanted to be OCD I would reforge every fight, but Im not going to do that, so Im going to pick a setup that provides me 99.3% of the single target damage I can do, while also being loads better in AoE/cleave situations. Its a level and a decision Im comfortable with, and its not a blind choice, people focus far too much in general on the choices you DONT make rather than what you gain by making them
I'll refer you to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post18504304 then.
H>M is not all that common in the post, and I do go into detail about the priorities for the typical EB/Echo build. That's also why in that post I recommend changing from the "best" H>M build to a M>H build. I just haven't analysed anything AoE in depth because I know roughly how it will turn out (and I've been fairly busy lately)
Someone said lava burst Doesn't scale with crit but didn't they change it so it does now? If not, they should so it works like locks chaos bolt since lvb is a good chunk of overall damage to not be effected by a major stat like crit, it was one of my main suggestions for elem in the past.
Would also like to see some more ways to let haste benefit our dps like buff dmg and tick scaling of flame shock dot, poss add a new dot (like thru unleash elements, consuming buff converts an instant cast spells damage into a dot or something) and lastly increase lava burst cast time to 1.7-8 sec and scale damage accordingly.
Second part is also wrong. They did not change it, they changed so lava burst now always crit and deals more damage if flame shock is applied. This just means that if you don't have a flameshock on your target lava burst will still do decent damage (abit more then a lightning bolt.)
And not sure why you are correcting me on the second part since I was not making a statement but asking a question about LvB....and if thats the case then I still think they should give it the chaos bolt treatment and find a way to let it's damage scale with crit, even if only a very minor scaling component. Makes alot of sense.