1. #1

    Are enhancement shammys wanted and good?

    hello
    I recently missed my enhancement Shammy Which now is lvl 85, I want to lvl it up and start randing on it, but i heard that they are not so wanted as they used to be. And now I see it too, there arent so many of them, Why is that?
    Will i be alle to find a guild and raid with If i Got my Shammy to 90? Or should i consider Going elemental?

  2. #2
    It depends on what raid format you're planning to play. We have an enh in our 10, and dat girl rocks! Not that good in 25, or so I heard.
    Anyway, I think you should play spec you love to play, not the one you don't.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    It depends on what raid format you're planning to play. We have an enh in our 10, and dat girl rocks! Not that good in 25, or so I heard.
    Anyway, I think you should play spec you love to play, not the one you don't.
    Enh can pull 60k HPS in 25mans easily, although I believe they have to use their instant proc (forget what it's called) for healing rain with conductivity. I also believe they perform quite decently on DPS. They are also getting quite a large buff in 5.3.

    How Enhance performs in my experience can also depend on what sort of guild you are looking for. Enhance is also a lot like Hunters in a way that they are very easy to perform well on which is why you will often see Enhance and Hunters topping DPS in worse guilds but much much lower down in higher end guilds.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-04-24 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #4
    Warchief Zethras's Avatar
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    From what i've seen, enhance has incredible burst, pretty good sustained, and a crapton of utility in the form of totems, and being able to cast free and instant spells such as healing rain.
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  5. #5
    They are getting some nice buffs next patch.

    I dont play my shaman anymore though, after 3 years of playing enhancement as main I rerolled for MoP. Blizzard still dont seem to have a fucking clue of what to do with the spec from patch to patch.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Enh can pull 60k HPS in 25mans easily, although I believe they have to use their instant proc (forget what it's called) for healing rain with conductivity. I also believe they perform quite decently on DPS. They are also getting quite a large buff in 5.3.

    How Enhance performs in my experience can also depend on what sort of guild you are looking for. Enhance is also a lot like Hunters in a way that they are very easy to perform well on which is why you will often see Enhance and Hunters topping DPS in worse guilds but much much lower down in higher end guilds.
    I'm sorry, but this is just wrong, on multiple points:

    - Pulling 60k hps would have more to do with the nature of the healing rains spell, than it would with enhancement, or conductivity. Also, ancestral guidance will almost always be preferential to conductivity, since AG is better burst healing, when you need it, and really, the only time an enhancement shaman should *need* to heal, is those brief moments where the healers are overwhelmed. Also, conductivity's effectiveness depends on how the other raid members choose to position themselves, whereas AG is a smart heal.

    - The instant proc is a 5-stack of maelstrom weapon, which allows us to cast an instant, and zero-mana healing rains (among other spells), unless you're talking about using ancestral swiftness as a talent choice.

    - Enhancement can perform better than quite decently, but it really depends on the skill of the player. We're designed for better single-target damage (I'm almost always topping the damage meters in my group, for single-target fights), as well as burst damage. Where we're underwhelming is in AoE damage. It takes a minimum of 3 buttons, just to start our AoE rotation, and then it's clunky to maintain it, versus the one, maybe two buttons that other classes have to push. The buff in 5.3 isn't going to be that huge. I'd call it a relatively small buff, actually (but a welcome one).

    - I strongly disagree, that enhancement is easy to perform well on. I hear many folks tell me that they abandoned it, because it was too complex. Also, every alt I have is noticeably easier to play, than my enhancement shaman, which has been my main, for seven years now. Even Ghostcrawler commented, in a blue post, that enhancement (along with subtlety rogues and another spec I can't remember) was one of the [paraphrased] more difficult/complex specs to play.


    @ Mikdru: Your question is really a subjective one, and the reasons why different guilds would or wouldn't want enhancement shaman can be just as subjective. Do you love enhancement, and want to play it? Then do so. Despite reading tons of forum QQ over the years, I've never had a challenge in obtaining, or keeping a raid spot, in any guild I've been in. That has more to do with me, as a player, than it does with my spec. Unless your goal is to join a world first guild, or other so-called "high end" guilds, then you'll probably find the same is true, for you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 07:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flimsy View Post
    They are getting some nice buffs next patch.

    I dont play my shaman anymore though, after 3 years of playing enhancement as main I rerolled for MoP. Blizzard still dont seem to have a fucking clue of what to do with the spec from patch to patch.
    I must not have gotten that memo, because the spec seems to be doing great, for me.

  7. #7
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post

    I must not have gotten that memo, because the spec seems to be doing great, for me.
    Context. In cataclysm enhance was getting mechanics changes every patch that would contradict the last. Hence why he rerolled for mop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    - I strongly disagree, that enhancement is easy to perform well on. I hear many folks tell me that they abandoned it, because it was too complex. Also, every alt I have is noticeably easier to play, than my enhancement shaman, which has been my main, for seven years now. Even Ghostcrawler commented, in a blue post, that enhancement (along with subtlety rogues and another spec I can't remember) was one of the [paraphrased] more difficult/complex specs to play.
    Enhancement is pretty simple in theory, just hitting skills as they come off cooldown, but when you really start playing it, and start to get to continuous make decisions on the fly based on what is happening while still following the priority list of the skills, it became rather complicated, this is why opnions differs so much about this. But I have to agree with you about the feel of alts when you have a Enhancement as main.
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  9. #9
    Precisely why I don't use priority trackers...it's pretty simple if you just sit there and press what the priority frame tells you to, but a lot more complicated (and fun) if you start making decisions on the fly. Throw healing into the mix (there's many times where it's useful, contrary to what someone said earlier) and it becomes more than just a dps spec.

  10. #10
    I had been Elemental for most of Wrath and Cataclysm, I even leveled as Elemental and it wasn't until late last week that I started playing Enhancement again. It's been since late BC early Wrath that I had really put any effort into understanding the spec. Being a player with no Guild attachments and just casual play, I disagree that Enhancement is simple. No class is really "hard" to figure out, but not knowing what you're doing displays very clearly as Enhancement where other specs just don't require a significant amount of thought.

    The tiny bit of complexity available as Enhancement is refreshing.

  11. #11
    Enhance is fine, though I don't know if it's just me, but I hardly ever see them around. It is always elemental or resto.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    I- Enhancement can perform better than quite decently, but it really depends on the skill of the player. We're designed for better single-target damage (I'm almost always topping the damage meters in my group, for single-target fights), as well as burst damage. Where we're underwhelming is in AoE damage. It takes a minimum of 3 buttons, just to start our AoE rotation, and then it's clunky to maintain it, versus the one, maybe two buttons that other classes have to push. The buff in 5.3 isn't going to be that huge. I'd call it a relatively small buff, actually (but a welcome one).
    Enhance is on the lower end of the middle of the pack on even single target fights like Magaera so it's not just a matter of other classes doing superior AoE.

    However, I will echo his point that unless your goal is cutting edge heroic progression, both shaman specs do suitable dps for the current content. If you constantly change your toon based on what is the flavor of the month and you're still on a forum asking about it, you should probably just settle in with one class that you enjoy playing.

  13. #13
    Couple facts:
    1. On single target, Enha does some REALLY good burst.
    2. On that same target, after the burst . Its like hitting with wet noodles.
    3. Our Cleave is terrible.
    4. Our AoE is good, but takes awefull long to ramp up.
    5. 5.3 Buffs are coming for a reason, they are much needed.
    6. We got insane AoE heals (in cost of some dps).
    7. This is my favourite spec anyway.

    Enha aint really terrible, but still it is not on par with other classes.

    Edit: Only thing im missing from my old main is good Cleave and EXECUTE :<
    Last edited by Speks; 2013-04-26 at 04:56 AM.

  14. #14
    As long as you're comfortable with one of the more complex dps rotation, already consider yourself a decent raider, then I can see no reason why you shouldn't play your enhance shaman. Once on the same gear par as the other members of the guild I would expect you to be doing relatively competitive DPS, but wouldn't expect you to be at the top.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikdru View Post
    hello
    I recently missed my enhancement Shammy Which now is lvl 85, I want to lvl it up and start randing on it, but i heard that they are not so wanted as they used to be. And now I see it too, there arent so many of them, Why is that?
    Not sure when you refer to when you say 'as they used to be'...been playing enhance since tbc and I see more guilds advertising for enhance than ever. That doesn't say much, because I don't remember ever being sought after at all...currently I occasionally see people looking for us, and I was able to find a team when I server transferred to start mop.

    I don't know about bleeding edge guilds...but in your average guild enhance can compete well if you know how, and enhancement can be quite easy (but skillcaps are subjective in some ways). Our current niche is indeed single target burst via cooldown stacking and some very impressive offhealing on stacked encounters. We are receiving buffs on the ptr. If you miss enhancement and enjoy it, now is, in my opinion, a great time to level your toon.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  16. #16
    Ive always played either Hunter or Enha sham since TBC(Only Hunter in Vanilla). As Enha, we are doing great, and are very much competetive. Ofc, you cant be No.1, without knowing ure role to the max. But being Enha, or even a DPS, is more than just DPS. We got great Off heals, AoE heals, interrupts, etc.
    That goes to both 10 and 25man. Cant see, what the difference is, or why they should be better at 10m, instead of 25m.

    That being said, we are competetive. I love playing Enha. The rotation / Prio list is long. It takes time, to really learn them, and pull it off.
    Also, we are great at soloing stuff aswell

    Same goes to our builds, there are mainly 2Enha builds with optional choices when it comes to utility and defensives. Thats what makes me love the Enha even more.
    Haste or Mastery builds

    Imo,. start with mastery build. You need alot of haste, before switching to it. When you got enough, check out taht Burst Dmg. :P Thats insane.
    Main(s): Enha sham and Hunter. Alts: Mage / Every other class, all are 90 (Used for professions only)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is just wrong, on multiple points:

    - Pulling 60k hps would have more to do with the nature of the healing rains spell, than it would with enhancement, or conductivity. Also, ancestral guidance will almost always be preferential to conductivity, since AG is better burst healing, when you need it, and really, the only time an enhancement shaman should *need* to heal, is those brief moments where the healers are overwhelmed. Also, conductivity's effectiveness depends on how the other raid members choose to position themselves, whereas AG is a smart heal.
    Almost correct. Enh healing is far superior compared to ele due to the MW glyph. So yes the mechanics on HR is important, but if they do support it you would rather have your enh do it than your ele. The 60k value is roughly correct for an entire fight but during specific windows (aka Raid wide aoe on Qon or Raden) I've done 150k+.

    In heroic modes there are plenty of cases where having basically +1 healer at a minor DPS loss is the difference between win or sloppiness/failure.

    Fights where HR has been useful:
    Jin'rok (Storm)
    Horridon (cry from the dino + troll during burn phase)
    Council (Kaz overload)
    Tortos (maintaining shields after a stomp)
    Magara (Rampage - one of the best examples)
    Ji-kun (quills after feed)
    Primordius (all sorts of random damage and a large melee stack, a bit hard to use though)
    Qon (First dog, especially if you let him max energy, after escaping tornadoes, Fist Smash)
    Twins (Nuclear Explosion, Tears, Tidal Waves if you have one not covered by Xuen)
    Lei Shen (last wind phase -- some of the later winds are brutal on HM)
    Raden (whole second phase)

    11 out of 13 fights we contribute meaningful healing that makes the raid go smoother. For a tier where mechanics have not supported our DPS I consider this a big win.

    In the past the argument against enh off healing was that the DPS loss was significant for the healing gained. Now with the numbers re-tuned in MOP and the MW glyph in place this is definitely not the case. There will always be fights where the enrages are too tight to even consider off healing (eg. Durumu, Gara'jal, etc) but that's fight as well. Adds some decision making and flavour.

    Enh as a +1 healer is one of the best kept secrets of MOP.

  18. #18
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
    In the past the argument against enh off healing was that the DPS loss was significant for the healing gained. Now with the numbers re-tuned in MOP and the MW glyph in place this is definitely not the case. There will always be fights where the enrages are too tight to even consider off healing (eg. Durumu, Gara'jal, etc) but that's fight as well. Adds some decision making and flavour.
    In cata our healing was shit so I'm not sure where you got this past argument from. Our healing is fairly significant in mists indeed, but I'd rather take a healing nerf and a dps buff, personally. If we take no healing nerfs in 5.3 I wouldn't complain, obviously :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Projali View Post
    Enhance is on the lower end of the middle of the pack on even single target fights like Magaera so it's not just a matter of other classes doing superior AoE.
    Don't get me wrong, because I'm looking forward to the buffs in 5.3, but where are you getting a statement like this, from? If it's raidbots, then you really have to take that site with a grain of salt, which even the raidbots admins will tell you.

    With an ilvl of 511, I'm on-par with our best mage, who has 515 equipped ilvl. He and I generally are in the top 2 spots, albeit in a 10 man, and albeit one small guild out of thousands of guilds. But, also, when I look at the parses that some of the enhancement players on this forum occasionally link, I see a very different picture than enhancement being in the lower end of the pack.

    I have to wonder about some of the following points, when anyone claims that enhancement dps is on the lower scale:

    - What data sources are they looking at? And, is the claim based on objective or subjective information?
    - Assuming raidbots, then how skilled are the enhancement players in the representation?
    - Are the enhancement shaman being represented using optimal talents and glyphs, for the fight in question?

    In short, is it possible, that what people are seeing, when they claim that enhancement is lower-end, basically amounts to lower dps/damage on the meters, because the spec has grown in complexity and challenge, and the spec is capable of solid performance, but (increasingly) only by more experienced and skilled players?

    The bits of blue posts that lend me to this thought are GC's comment about being worried that enhancement was too high damage, at fully-geared T15 levels, but that they weren't worrying yet, because of how difficult the spec is to master (paraphrased), as well as comments to the effect that we have too many buttons, and could do with less action bar clutter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 05:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
    Almost correct. Enh healing is far superior compared to ele due to the MW glyph. So yes the mechanics on HR is important, but if they do support it you would rather have your enh do it than your ele. The 60k value is roughly correct for an entire fight but during specific windows (aka Raid wide aoe on Qon or Raden) I've done 150k+.
    And, of that 150+, how much is attributable to conductivity, versus healing rains? And, 10 man or 25? How many MS healers, in the comp? I'm skeptical of the idea of cond/HR being able to do that much on 10 man, but if it's possible, hell, I'll push it on my guild. Our people are convinced that you can't BL on Kaz' overload, but I can see where cond/HR could easily overcome that. Even if it could do 60k, on a burst, I'd take it.

    So far, conductivity has shown up very poorly on my recount, but that may have more to do with my guildies not stacking up, to take advantage of it? I have seen numerous times where I've saved the raid with AG, giving the healers time to catch up.

  20. #20
    @Raiju that's why I said there was a large argument against us healing in Cata (because it sucked).

    @Embermoon: The statement from GC was before they did the nerf via the RPPM formula. Attack speed from the primary flurry bonus (ie the actual attack speed increase, not the bonus haste), unleash wind, and the raid buff were all increasing RPPM proc rates. They nerfed this and our damage came down (theoretically) significantly.

    There are not a ton of data points here (due to private logs) but many enh shamans in upper end guilds have experience the same locations on the DPS meters week over week. You could argue none of us know how to play our class to the fullest but I think the more logical explanation is that we're in an environment where every class/person plays at or near the top end of their potential (more or less). In lower end guilds (which I have been a part of in the past) you have a lot more potential for any player to be higher or lower (relatively on the meters). Not here to claim anyone in anyone's guild is better or worse than anyone else or doesn't know how to play their class, but there are large increases in raid DPS the higher you go up the ranking chain (when normalized for gear) and there is a reason for that. To be perfectly honest, there is stuff known in those guilds that takes forever to hit the public sphere of knowledge. The shaman community has thankfully not been like that but it's a factor that affects other classes we're competing with.

    Add in the fact that we're getting a significant buff in 5.3 and I think it's fair to say the spec is under-performing right now compared to others.

    I should caveat all of this by saying that I don't think meters = performance. There's always a premium on boss damage, utility and survivability, all of which enh does very well right now.

    EDIT: Also there were plenty of fights Enh was fine at on normal that it go pooped on in Heroic.

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