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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    But beyond that, the point of Fel Reavers was to make you afraid. Which gets back to the issue of immersion the OP talked about. WoW has been reduced from a fantasy world down to a Super-Mario like test of your skill at collecting shiny virtual objects.
    Absolutely. You'd not be paying attention, and all of a sudden be running for your life from one. That's a good thing, something the game needs more of (even the elites on the thunder isle are more or less pushovers, aside from all being really slow moving)
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
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  2. #62
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I agree that TBC screwed things up by removing many elites from questing zones. I thought the elites really fostered group play.
    No it didn't. It fostered skipping elite zones, that's what it did.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  3. #63
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    I can't say I enjoyed getting mauled by the running centaur elite in The Barrens all that much, but I also have some pretty fond memories of open-world elite mobs, I was very dissapointed when they were removed. As long as they don't patrol at lightning speed I don't see why they shouldn't be there, and I never got why they bothered to do the work of removing them in the first place, and with it removing any sense of danger in the world. There's a reason many of us remember the Fel Reaver, it was an experience, I'd like more of that, memorable stuff that is.

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Eorayn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    BC and Wrath had group quests and I loved that. It made it so you needed people to help you. That would mean spamming or using the group tool to find people. I miss that. Now everything is soloable when leveling.
    It's not just soloable, it's dead on easy. There is no challenge to leveling, which provokes people to call it a "grind".

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    I can't say I enjoyed getting mauled by the running centaur elite in The Barrens all that much, but I also have some pretty fond memories of open-world elite mobs, I was very dissapointed when they were removed. As long as they don't patrol at lightning speed I don't see why they shouldn't be there, and I never got why they bothered to do the work of removing them in the first place, and with it removing any sense of danger in the world. There's a reason many of us remember the Fel Reaver, it was an experience, I'd like more of that, memorable stuff that is.
    Haha reminded me of the Elite Alliance group that patrolled the barrens. I remember just casually doing stuff turning around and seeing them and shitting my pants. Even after you knew they existed the Barrens leveling experience wasn't complete without running like hell from 4 elites and unlike the centaur they weren't in any rush to go anywhere unless you aggro'd them then they came charging.

    I did deadmines normal the other day and all I could ask myself during the boss fights is why did they do absolutely nothing. The Ogre does his AoE missile attack in his 2nd phase don't mother moving though because a pillow fight could be more dangerous. The Goblin/Ogre Thing drops a bunch of bombs that slightly inconvenience you with some mild knock back don't worry about damage though because foam swords are more fatal. The Mechanical boss does an AoE WhirlWind, don't inconvenience yourself by moving out of the way though because gravity has a more adverse effect on your health. The Worgen spawns adds and then gives you time to kill the adds while the worgen is phased out so don't have to shift any focus the game does it for you. And Captain Cookie, my god He was never a real challenge unless you pulled adds, but his part in the new Deadmines normal is literally just a joke he may as well walked out of cabin /danced and dropped a blue and ran away that would have been infinitely more entertaining.

    Blizzard has developed some fun tools with Phasing and CRZ I really hope they choose to maximize them and add some depth to the early game, otherwise I can't for the life of me figure out why we have 90 levels. Why not just start out at level 90 and have no gear or gold with the way the current system is leveling just feels now like a way to make the game feel long because all that matters is end game now. As long as I'm a low level I could take a shit and blizzard wouldn't let me wipe.

  6. #66
    I think you will find that leveling is challenging to players doing it for the first time. 5-mans are challenging to players doing them for the first time. And so on. The game is new and confusing and so on and so on. There is a TON of stuff to learn that experienced players don't even think about.

    The rest of us who have 5 or 10 max level toons, leveling is NOT MEANT TO BE DIFFICULT FOR US. And it never will be. Just get over it. Go find a different game. Go do a hardcore challenge or something.

    Now, imagine if you go into a 5-man for the first time and it's actually hard for the people who have been there done that for several years. You're going to be called a noob and kicked out of the group because you're "dragging it down," because no one whines harder about difficulty than some impatient altoholic leveling another toon.

    And you're going to quit WoW.

    That's why leveling will never be hard for anyone but beginners.

    If you think leveling ISN'T hard for (most) beginners then you simply don't have a grasp of how complex the game is.
    Last edited by HardCoder; 2013-04-27 at 12:45 AM.

  7. #67
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I think you will find that leveling is challenging to players doing it for the first time.
    Firstly, the vast majority of players levelling characters r not new players to Wow. The amount of new players to Wow overall is tiny.

    Secondly, the levelling experience for this tiny amount of new players is very easy. If u compare it to levelling back in Vanilla or TBC they are worlds apart in difficulty, immersion, risk and the time it takes. Whether ur a new player or a veteran.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    5-mans are challenging to players doing them for the first time. And so on.
    I point to my 2 points above... dungeons now r mindbumbingly simple even for players who enter them for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    The game is new and confusing and so on and so on.
    I point to my 2 points above...

    Questing is mindnumbingly easier than it used to be. Questing has been 'streamlined' with the addition of showing where u need to go on your map and pointing at exactly the 'object(s)' u needed to interact with to finish the quest. Only an incredibly stupid person would have trouble with questing in Wow these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    There is a TON of stuff to learn that experienced players don't even think about.
    Since the classes have been simplified, since the talent trees have been simplified, since the homogenisation of the classes, since the simplification of gear stats, etc etc. Do u really think its EQUALLY as easy/difficult to level these days to a new player as it is now?

    Methinks not.

    Comparing the difficulty of levelling now to back then are worlds apart. There was a reason that alts were not the norm back in vanilla... players had 1 main and RARELY had more than one alt. FACT.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-04-27 at 01:13 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Firstly, the vast majority of players levelling characters r not new players to Wow. The amount of new players to Wow overall is tiny.
    The only thing that matters in your entire response is this.

    The number of players new to WoW had better not be tiny. And the game better be friendly to them. If Blizzard isn't getting, let's say, 1 million brand new subs a year, then the game is fucked.

    The people who are already in the game, the only part of the game that is for them is level 90. The other 89 levels are for the newbies. If you want the whole game to be hard, then you need to go look for a game that maxed out at 100,000 global subs. At best.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 08:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiel View Post
    I disagree, while I understand the point you are making. Elite mobs back in the day generally just hit harder and had more health but there definetly was challenge. Not all classes could Solo Elites at least not until higher levels but Solo-ing elites was definitely a challenge.
    No, this is bullshit. A mob that hits too hard for you to kill it isn't a challenge. It's just a mob you can't kill.

    It's like what I am facing if I try to solo a Pandaren elite on my disc priest. It just can't be done. It's not a challenge. It's just something I can't do. Well, maybe if I had 520 gear I could do it. If I respeced shadow I might be able to do it now.

    Sap/sheeping targets is entertaining the first half dozen times you do it and then it becomes like the OTHER 125 ZA/G runs I did a couple years ago where most of the wipes were due to trash.

    CC is NO FUN in random groups.

    Because 1 person is leveling his 12th alt, and 3 people are like "okay CC something although I'm not sure what coz I dont pay much attention" and 1 person is "what the fuck is CC I just started" and the person who can do the CC is that last person that everyone is about to kick.

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