View Poll Results: Would You Play a DK Healer?

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  • Yes

    229 41.56%
  • No

    196 35.57%
  • If the spells are cool

    126 22.87%
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  1. #61
    Personally, when Death Knights came out some of their talent trees were exactly same of a paladin's but in a darker nature. I always thought of a Death Knight has the polar opposite of a Paladin. Where the Paladin wields power from a holy nature and Death Knight wields it from an unholy nature. I think it would be as simple as changing the Unholy tree into healing tree and it basically comes down to the belief that they would be reanimating their target, nothing holy about. I played Unholy for a long time so I'm not going to just say screw all DPS Unholy but the concept would easily work.

    Would add a layer of uniqueness for sure, every healer in the game deals in nature or in holy powers. A healer that heals from an unholy power that just sends sinister and cool.

  2. #62
    Pandaren Monk Sett's Avatar
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    We reallly need someone else using int plate gear, imo. I'd be all for DK healers.

  3. #63
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerLCD View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback guys.

    For me, the concept of a death can heal isn't far fetched at all and it actually makes a lot of sense from a Lore standpoint. Sacrificing your own life force and using minions to heals others is just a cool idea. I have't healed since wrath, but this is something that would make me heal again.

    I included a video in the OP to explain a little more about the concept.
    Would be nice if you could do some arts to show the DK healer in action
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    I've thought for a long time that DKs could have a healing spec, if 4th specs were to happen. They have mastery over death; it stands to reason that they should be able to manipulate its attempts to take their friends. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has mused on this craziness.

    But they would have to use mana. It's necessary to balance them with the other healers. Without a mana bar, you have a healer that is never OOM, which is OP. Beyond that, it either fails at short but heavy healing bursts, or can heal everything indefinitely. So, just like monks, a DK healer (I like necrolyte) has to get a new button on the stance bar that converts his regular power source into mana.
    I was having a talk with my guild about this last night and we came to the same conclusion.

    While it would be absolutely insane fun to have a rune/RP healing mechanic it just wouldn't be balanceable because as you say, you can't 'oom' with runes when the resource system is so quick (from 'oom' to 'full' in 20 secs would be OP for any mana healer). I don't think you could balance the class around big, slow heals which would be what's required to stop them from being OP

  5. #65
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damyou View Post
    I was having a talk with my guild about this last night and we came to the same conclusion.

    While it would be absolutely insane fun to have a rune/RP healing mechanic it just wouldn't be balanceable because as you say, you can't 'oom' with runes when the resource system is so quick (from 'oom' to 'full' in 20 secs would be OP for any mana healer). I don't think you could balance the class around big, slow heals which would be what's required to stop them from being OP
    agreed, giving mana to a DK healer is the way to go, because of the other healers. That being said you can always have other ressources like rune or dark energy, just like holy power or chi.
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  6. #66
    The funny thing is that when 2 of our healers piped up, the appeal of a non mana based healing class seemed to be huge. As hard as it might be to balance properly the appeal for something 'different' definitely seems to be there for those who have been long term (multiple expansion) MS healers.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    We reallly need someone else using int plate gear, imo. I'd be all for DK healers.
    Why does the resolution to that issue have to come from creating a class that can use intel plate? Why can't the resolution be fixing the problems inherent in the loot system itself.

    Simpler solution...

    Step 1 - Remove dodge and parry completely --> Monks and Druids translate their primary stats into dodge and parry, why can't Warriors, Death Knights, and Paladins?
    Step 2 - Remove primary stats from gear... bear with me on this...
    Step 3 - Make all gear match primary stats for that player's spec.
    So, a piece of mail drops... It has Mastery and Haste on it.
    Shaman says - I can use that for my resto set
    Hunter says - I can use that for my BM set
    They roll off, hunter wins (because they always win, bastards)... And when he equips it, it becomes Agi/stam with mastery/haste
    Step 4 - ???
    Step 5 - Profit

    This would also require significantly less development time for creating 12 pieces of gear. When bosses drop loot, more people would be able to use said items (including for off-specs). Tanks would no longer be required to maintain separate sets for tanking and DPS. The only real issue would be spirit - but there have been plenty of mechanics in the past that allow mana regeneration based on things like crit (paladins), various cooldowns, DPS (telluric currents), etc. I don't see why we can't essentially just remove spirit completely. Alternatively you could make spirit useful for other classes somehow (warlock spirit -> spellpower conversion in wrath).

  8. #68
    I love the idea.

  9. #69
    No but you made a nice presentation :-)

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by delyian View Post
    Why does the resolution to that issue have to come from creating a class that can use intel plate? Why can't the resolution be fixing the problems inherent in the loot system itself.

    Simpler solution...

    Step 1 - Remove dodge and parry completely --> Monks and Druids translate their primary stats into dodge and parry, why can't Warriors, Death Knights, and Paladins?
    Step 2 - Remove primary stats from gear... bear with me on this...
    Step 3 - Make all gear match primary stats for that player's spec.
    So, a piece of mail drops... It has Mastery and Haste on it.
    Shaman says - I can use that for my resto set
    Hunter says - I can use that for my BM set
    They roll off, hunter wins (because they always win, bastards)... And when he equips it, it becomes Agi/stam with mastery/haste
    Step 4 - ???
    Step 5 - Profit

    This would also require significantly less development time for creating 12 pieces of gear. When bosses drop loot, more people would be able to use said items (including for off-specs). Tanks would no longer be required to maintain separate sets for tanking and DPS. The only real issue would be spirit - but there have been plenty of mechanics in the past that allow mana regeneration based on things like crit (paladins), various cooldowns, DPS (telluric currents), etc. I don't see why we can't essentially just remove spirit completely. Alternatively you could make spirit useful for other classes somehow (warlock spirit -> spellpower conversion in wrath).
    imo go with the SWTOR style for how gear works. Have "slots" in each item, with removeable mods (that have a required level on them) that you are able to put in any item that has the mod type. This would allow people to "transmog" still and use whatever item took their fancy. Raid bosses could drop items with the mods in them already but if someone didn't like the item but liked the mods, and somone else liked the item but not the mods, both would be happy. It's a good system imo.

  11. #71
    Brewmaster jahasafrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerLCD View Post
    I am sure we have all thought about this at some point or another...
    No. At no point have I ever thought, "Hey, this malicious lich-warrior would make a pretty good healer." Not trying to sound flippant, I just don't share your vision for the Death Knight.

  12. #72
    Yeah, sorry. Even after reading the counter arguments in this thread, I still cannot get behind the idea of a Death Knight as a true healing class. They're built on disease, necromancy and martial prowess - none of which goes towards the healing of allies, except in extreme and generally unspeakable ways.

    Do you really think a druid of the Cenarion Circle, or a Tauren with their ties to the land itself, or a Human with their now horrifying history with the undead and death magic would *EVER* consent to be healed at the cost of the life force around them? What Paladin, protector of life and light, would ever allow himself to be the recipient of such a heinous act?

    Death Knights bring pain, suffering and death in their wake. That they were once good and now choose to lay that devastation at the hands of their faction's enemies is the only reason they are even tolerated at all.

  13. #73
    High Overlord Umbramancer's Avatar
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    This sounds cool, but I don't play DKs. But I would welcome this.

    EDIT: But wouldn't having 3 resources be really hard to manage? Why not just get rid of the runic system when specing Necrotic? Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Umbramancer; 2013-04-28 at 08:52 AM.

  14. #74
    I'd play it for sure

  15. #75
    Warchief Huntaer's Avatar
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    Oh yes diseases that heal people. Can you not make one for real life?
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  16. #76
    Blademaster Shandita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyokuchaMidori View Post
    Would be nice if you could do some arts to show the DK healer in action
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz3zPZvSfsc
    Last edited by Nyanmaru; 2013-04-28 at 08:21 PM.

  17. #77
    If this ever went live, I'd resub.

  18. #78
    I like the concept and you have some pretty cool ideas started here but there are a few things that popped out to me as problems:

    1. As several others have said mana may be a better resource to use than runic power. With mana you have the throughput vs longevity paradigm balancing how long you have to heal with how much you need to heal for. With runic power and runes you have an infinitely refilling resource. To make that fit with the current healers, DKs would have to have pretty limited throughput to make up for their nigh infinite longevity.

    2. You're adding a lot more resources than DKs already have. Dark power, necrotic runes, and the base ones all Dks have may be a lot to keep track of. While I think the Dark Power using abilities are pretty cool I don't see the need for them to have their own resource. You say you can only use one of these abilities every 5 minutes (which is how long it takes to get 3 Dark Power) so why not simply give them 5 min cds and have them share cds as some warrior abilities used to. Imagine any fight under 5 min where DKs won't be able to use any of these Dark Power spells. I do like the idea of having the spells become stronger over time when off cd which I'll address later. Also 5 min is really long for most healer cds currently. As far as I'm aware only pallies have anything over 3 minutes (but I don't claim to be terribly familiar with healing cd times in MoP). I think moving Necrotic Grip to 5min and the other two to a 3 min cd would work out better in the end.

    3. Mastery: My initial thought is that your mastery works against haste too strongly but it could work out if balanced correctly. Haste lets you get RP faster while mastery lets you use RP longer before needing to use runes. Since you said RP would be the main resource I'm assuming the stronger spells will use RP rather than runes (could be wrong), which means people won't care about getting their runes back as fast if they can make their RP last longer. Imagine someone has enough mastery and haste that they are only using runes to get RP when they get low on RP and let the other runes sit because they just don't need them rather than using them rotationally when they become available. What would more mastery do? Would it increase the chance of lowering the RP cost or would it increase the discount on RP? A few other ideas for mastery:
    -Something similar to Wandering Plague that would have a chance to heal nearby allies (maybe tied to crit chance)
    -I liked your idea about the Dark Power spells getting stronger over time, so I think that could be a very interesting mastery. What if most DK spells had relatively short cds but mastery increased their effectiveness over time giving a lot of flexibilty of how the spec could be played; lots of little cds or just a few huge raid saving cds depending on what the encounter called for.

    4. I don't see the need to change the RP cap up to 300 with what you've posted so far. You increased RP generation by 4x but you could have just as easily increased it by 1.25x and left RP cap at 100 and reduced RP cost to keep the same ratio. Not really a problem as much as a gripe about unnecessarily inflating numbers.

    5. Runes: you didn't really touch on what runes would do so i can't really comment on those for now.

    Diseases seem like a easy HoT for DKs to use or maybe the old blood presence could be good for the toolbox. You've got a good start here. Keep working on it. I'd like to see a wholly fleshed out version.

  19. #79
    Immortal apepi's Avatar
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    I think this might fit warlocks better then dks.
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  20. #80
    How did you get "healer" out of the word "Necrotic".

    Necrosis - death, the stage of dying, the act of killing

    Healing DK is thematically stupid. Ignoring the whole "We already have a healing knight class" bit -- if we make them experts at restoring life then it kind of undermines the damnation that's so core to their class. These guys are not beacons of hope. They were given a dark, destructive power and decide to use it for a good cause. You cheapen that by saying that these people who are trapped in a lifeless existence can they, themselves, restore life. It makes no sense. It sucks to be a Death Knight and we know this. They are cut off from Life and The Living which is why DK NPCs say things like "Suffer well".

    As far as "Well, they can brezz!" -- this is silly. Rezzing is not the DK's strong point. They don't have a proper rezz. In fact their brezz initially raised the target ally as a ghoul and if I recall correctly this only kept the target in the ghoul state for a limited time before they collapsed into a lifeless heap of twisted flesh. What is being portrayed here is obvious. It was changed into a standard brezz so it was easier to use and didn't conflict with the standard version of the spell. That's just a change based on the game's mechanics demanding it. That doesn't at all suggest that in-lore the Death Knights have a knack for restoring lost life to what it once was.

    I think it's rather telling that their only form of healing allies involves the complete and total destruction of a living being -- the blood worms popping.

    Also, Death Coil should never heal living tissue. It's called Death Coil ffs.

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