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  1. #1

    Alignment of the Horde?

    Hey everyone, i recently changed one of my characters to experience the horde quests of pandaria and some quests really shocked me. I have been playing Alliance since i started playing in 2005 and i guess i never could really get the concept of the Horde.
    Some people will think its silly, but lore and story is the most important part of the game for me, and i always try to see the things i do from the perspective of the character play.
    As an alliance player i have to admit there are some quests and actions you do that are questionable. But on the side of the Horde i cant really understand the motivations to do some of the quests at all. I always had the impression that both factions don't really are good or evil.

    Is that because of the Garrosh thing or are the quests in general more "evil"?
    Last edited by ph4rmacy; 2013-04-26 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #2
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    You get a perspective of this, you need try and see the horde in a more morally grey sense, one that can border on some quite dark elements, but at the end of the day think on the fact that the horde is doing what it has to do survive.

    That said, the recent story and plot developments have taken a nosedive with the horde, given Garrosh's mentality on 'strength = everything', and Sylvanas and her posing as the lich queen. A little more to Sylvanas's credit, she does what she does to survive, more on a personal level, as its been stated she surrounds herself with an army of loyal undead to protect her from 'dying'.
    Garrosh, its another story, since he caused the horde to fall into rebellion and races that once trusted the orcs now see them as a threat to there survival.

    Horde in general will always have a more gritty, darker edge to them, because looking back at there past, your see examples of horde characters who make terrible decisions, ones they live to regret (Grom, Ner'zhul), and some who learn from those past mistakes and try to go beyond it (Saurfang, Durotan, Thrall).

    If it seems shocking to you... actually, give us some examples of quests your talking about for comparison.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph4rmacy View Post
    Some people will think its silly, but lore and story is the most important part of the game for me, and i always try to see the things i do from the perspective of the character play.
    Its not silly at all

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Horde in general will always have a more gritty, darker edge to them, because looking back at there past, your see examples of horde characters who make terrible decisions, ones they live to regret (Grom, Ner'zhul), and some who learn from those past mistakes and try to go beyond it (Saurfang, Durotan, Thrall)..
    Yeah, the Horde is generally more savage and brutal than Alliance races, but the Alliance sint picture perfect either
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #4
    Garrosh made the Horde much, much darker than what it had been under Thralls leadership. Prior to Garrosh, the Kalimdor Horde didn't really have any motivations other than settling down in their territory, their primary enemies were the quillboar and centaur with minor skirmishes against the Night Elves. You can damn near pin everything bad the Horde has done in the last three expansions on Garrosh if it doesn't involve Forsaken.

  5. #5
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    But yes OP, name a few quests for example, there could be a reason for such development.

  6. #6
    Chaotic Neutral - They do what they must to survive and do not show any semblance of order about themselves.

  7. #7
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Chaotic Neutral - They do what they must to survive and do not show any semblance of order about themselves.
    thats exaggerating. Its been shows the horde does know order within its races, those who follow there chieftains and other rulers follow such order.

    But all it takes is having a rotten apple and things blow up.

  8. #8
    In a very generic sense, I think the races, considering their laws and customs, would lean towards these alignments:

    Horde: As a whole, Lawful Neutral. Their morals focus on personal honor and ancient customs. Right and wrong is not defined by good or evil, but how you honor tradition and stay true to your word, to your superiors and to the Horde as a whole.
    Orcs: Lawful Neutral
    Trolls: True Neutral
    Tauren: Lawful Good
    Forsaken: Neutral Evil
    Blood Elves: Lawful Neutral
    Goblins: Chaotic Neutral

    For their leaders:
    Thrall: Lawful Good
    Garrosh: Lawful Neutral
    Vol'jin: Neutral Good
    Baine: Lawful Good
    Sylvanas: Neutral Evil
    Lor'themar: Lawful Neutral
    Galliwyx: Neutral Evil

    Alliance: As a whole, Lawful Good. They expect you not only to honor traditions and stay true to your word, but to act good and kind to others.
    Humans: Lawful Neutral
    Dwarves: Lawful Neutral
    Night Elves: Lawful Neutral
    Gnomes: Chaotic Good
    Draenei: Lawful Good
    Worgen: Lawful Neutral

    For their leaders:
    Varian: Lawful Good
    Anduin: Lawful Good
    Jaina: Neutral Good
    Muradin: Lawful Good
    Falstad: Neutral Good
    Moria: Really don't know enough. Maybe Neutral Evil. Maybe Chaotic Good. Maybe just true Neutral. We don't know her true objectives to judge her.
    Tyrande: Chaotic Good
    Malfurion: Lawful Good
    Mekkatorque: Lawful Good
    Velen: Lawful Good to the extreme
    Greymane: Lawful Neutral

    And about Garrosh being Lawful Neutral: I think he's Lawful because he does seem to put his honor as a moral guide, and despite all his evil acts he does them because he believes he must in order to save his people. He's not in that for himself nor has any kind of sadistic pleasure in doing the things he does. So I think he's Lawful Neutral to the extreme: someone bound by a personal code who not cares if what he does is good or evil so long as his honor (in his eyes at least) is not tarnished.

    Just my opinion. I know people will always disagree about these things.

  9. #9
    Banned Not Helping's Avatar
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    Horde side questing is how it really went down. I mean just look at Twilight highlands. Alliance get a wedding. While we men of horde get to wreck the wildhammer dwarves.

  10. #10
    What do you mean exactly by evil?

    Neither side is evil, the crap we face in raids and that, are evil.

  11. #11
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    What do you mean exactly by evil?

    Neither side is evil, the crap we face in raids and that, are evil.
    I'm waiting to hear context to what the OP means and what quests.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    What do you mean exactly by evil?

    Neither side is evil, the crap we face in raids and that, are evil.
    I find these things make much more sense if you toss Good and Evil in the waste bin and replace them with Altruistic and Selfish. Basically how much you concern yourself with the consequences of your actions when they affect other people.

  13. #13
    IMO, Hode quests in general are a lot more aggressive then Alliance's, but not evil per se. However, I do seem to find more Horde evil quests than Alliance evil quests.

    Primary offenders on the Horde side are the Forsaken. Specially anything related to their plagues.

  14. #14
    Ive played both Sides in MoP with the expection, of the KW with Shieldwall and DO and in all honosty, i do kinda prefer the Horde Side of questing. Though really, only Jade forest has unquie quests, Kun Lai is kinda mirriored.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    IMO, Hode quests in general are a lot more aggressive then Alliance's, but not evil per se. However, I do seem to find more Horde evil quests than Alliance evil quests.

    Primary offenders on the Horde side are the Forsaken. Specially anything related to their plagues.
    They seem evil, since in the real world we have an significant fear of bio-weapons. But is melting someone with blight any worse than crushing them with a cave-in, stabbing them with a sword or incinerating them with a fireball? In the end Dead is Dead.

  16. #16
    Im leveling an alliance character for the Double Agent achievement and its kind of the opposite. Shes 80 right now for Herald of the Titans but goig through the ICC heroics was soooo annoying with Jaina. Sylvanus is trying to kill the LK and is very motivated by revenge. Jaina is like a little girl that lost her friend because he grew up and wants him to still be good. Im sorry but the dudes evil and he was always a selfish brat. Theres probably more terrible Alliance RP higher up. Its bad enough that I have to heal gnomes. Its hard not to let them die but aoe heals basically save them. Other races I can imagine are Blood Elves(humans, Draenei) or trolls(Night Elves, Worgen) but gnomes, ugh. If only you could limit your groups to Panadren only.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    They seem evil, since in the real world we have an significant fear of bio-weapons. But is melting someone with blight any worse than crushing them with a cave-in, stabbing them with a sword or incinerating them with a fireball? In the end Dead is Dead.
    Plus at least you can get raised to work for the Horde under Sylvanas should the Forsaken get to you first.
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Im leveling an alliance character for the Double Agent achievement ...
    Brace yourself for some seriously bad storytelling. The Alliance do a lot of things, good and bad, that are just flat out forgotten. Any questline that might be interesting or morally grey will simply be swept under the rug and forgotten. It's easy to see why Alliance players get pissed. The Horde get how evil they are acting rubbed in their face constantly (which is a serious downer), but negative attention is still better than just being forgotten.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    Plus at least you can get raised to work for the Horde under Sylvanas should the Forsaken get to you first.
    True that. The Alliance's own policies (genocide all undead) mean that once raised, you have no where to go but Sylvanas or the Argent Dawn. Or commit suicide.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    The Alliance's own policies (genocide all undead)
    I still don't get where people get this idea. There's no place, book, game or reference in lore that supports this.

  20. #20
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    I don't think I'd call Garrosh lawful neutral, but that's just me I guess.

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