1. #1

    Throne of Thunder - Pinnacle of Storms LFR group issues

    Hi Everyone, first I am unable to access the official forums at this time, at work dont have my token. If someone would want to post this to the official forums that would be awesome too.

    Since Pinnacle of Storms came out I am noticing that it is very hard to get a raid with no bosses killed in it. Normally I have been getting raids that are either on Lei Shin or on the trash on their way to Lei Shin. I see the issue as two fold. First the Lei Shin boss requires quite a few mechanics which usually some people in the raid fail on. Even with determination this can still lead to many a wipes. I think we were in there over an hour last night with 6 wipes on the boss and my wife and I just gave up and left the group because even with determination we weren't making progress on the boss.

    How I see this fight going is every wipe we loose a few people from the raid. Even with determination it just seems people don't want to stay around. So if you are DPS you are looking at a 30 - 40 min queue to get in and have only 1 boss to kill which is very frustrating after waiting in queue that long. After you kill the boss it tries to give you priority for a fresh raid but doesn't always and can end up putting you back in at the same place since it seems that very few people leave the raid in between the first and third bosses in this raid. There was a blue that posted that he stays for the boss he already killed since he can use another coin. This however is not ideal not everyone will have coins left or want to use it on that boss again, maybe they already got what they needed.

    So this creates a perpetuating issue. If you are in queue for 30-40 mins you get Lei Shin and kill and then requeue. If you are lucky you get a fresh run after another 30-40 mins but after the 2nd boss you leave the group because you have no need to want to stay for the last boss. I think a fix for this would be at least maybe with this particular boss until people get the mechanics down might be to offer at least some gold for people who stay around to kill him. Maybe not give them access to another piece of loot without a coin but at least give them some gold for suffering through some more wipes on a boss that they don't really need. This issue is especially exaggerated if you end up with multi instances that are all on the last boss in a row which if you drop from them then you get a 30 min deserter but you don't get a hundreds of gold repair costs.

    Please share your thoughts on this.

  2. #2
    Suggested on official DR&S forums:

    (1) Add a "jump to another group" button, so you can queue to move to another LFR group that is on the same boss. Implemented properly, this would drain people from smaller into larger LFR groups.

    (2) If groups get too small, automatically merge them (subject to presence of tanks/healers) rather than filling them with individual new members.

    This would reduce the number of fresh people being sucked into partially completed runs.
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  3. #3
    Remember when you could see how many bosses where killed when you had the invitation? Seeing 2/3 killed would let people clic on "cancel" and no one would join.
    If you end up with only Lei Shin left it's because he's harder to kill than other bosses and requires people to be aware and, of course, because he's the last boss.
    Remember that, even if you kill a boss already killed in a previous run you can use mogu runes to get gold/loot.

    It's something very complicated and I know Blizzard is working on it. Now, if you killed the 3rd boss, queue for the first two and want the system to find a group that fits your requirement, you'll get very very long queue time. In my opinion, it's not a game issue, but a player's behavior and I don't know how Blizzard can "control" that.
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  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Give it two or three weeks, when 70% of LFR knows how Lei Shen works and doesn't insta-bail after the first wipe, and the issue will sort itself out.

    Happened with Garalon. Happened with Council. All fine now.

    You only need to stick with the queue time once a week, for a short period. It won't be like this forever.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Give it two or three weeks, when 70% of LFR knows how Lei Shen works and doesn't insta-bail after the first wipe, and the issue will sort itself out.

    Happened with Garalon. Happened with Council. All fine now.
    Except that those got nerfed, Lei Shen still remains a (relatively) hard boss after two easy ones, a difference in difficulty that doesn't work within the same instance, giving the results we see now: people quitting at Lei Shen en masse, coming in as replacement in a group with despe... i mean determination buff stacked is bad news too, lost count of the number of replacements at Lei Shen who zoned in, expressed displeasure in chat and dropped the group because it's not worth the hassle, working great there...

    The only change we will get when time passes is that people who got the items they want from pinnacle is that they'll stop queueing for that part altogether, since the other parts of ToT (Or 5.0 raids) also give the VPs they want but are less annoying, not seeing how that helps either TBH.
    Last edited by mysticx; 2013-04-26 at 04:34 PM.

  6. #6
    The Problem with the Lei Shen Encounter is not that its hard, but that it doesn't punish individual players for doing something wrong.

    When you fail in the Durumu maze you die. If you don't go to your corner and inside the right zones during the transition phases, either somebody else dies or there are too many adds for the raid to handle.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernspalt View Post
    The Problem with the Lei Shen Encounter is not that its hard, but that it doesn't punish individual players for doing something wrong.

    When you fail in the Durumu maze you die. If you don't go to your corner and inside the right zones during the transition phases, either somebody else dies or there are too many adds for the raid to handle.
    Generally if you stand too close to someone during the transition phases you'll cause dispersion chain (spelling?) to spawn an add.
    If you don't run/stack on someone when you have static shock then you'll die

    TBH most of the issues I've seen in LFR have been to do with the transition phases, people not stacking/spreading when they should etc. It definitely requires a level of personal responsibility to get "right". I ended up spamming "Stack", "Spread" or "Soak Orbs" at my corner and eventually people managed to get it down after 3 or 4 wipes.
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  8. #8
    Cough up 150g each and get someone that can que as a tank to que you two in. Odds are in your favor to get a fresh run with a tank que.

  9. #9
    The biggest issue in my eyes is people running into the dead quadrants and dying. Adds can be aoed down with almost not problem with a full raid. I had one transition where we had 15+ adds and it was not a problem. Whats crazy is people run to the zones even with me spam /y at them. It's retarded.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by iDrunkenheal View Post
    The biggest issue in my eyes is people running into the dead quadrants and dying. Adds can be aoed down with almost not problem with a full raid. I had one transition where we had 15+ adds and it was not a problem. Whats crazy is people run to the zones even with me spam /y at them. It's retarded.
    Ugh, don't remind me

  11. #11
    More than most fights, Lei Shin has a lot of mechanics that inexperienced raiders and those who don't really ever raid will fail at. They won't necessarily fail because they're bad, but because they've likely never seen things like this before. Remember, LFR is comprised in part of people who don't raid/haven't raided in the past. They get a few basic concepts (don't stand in the bad things, etc) then they hit Lei Shen. Soaking the bouncing balls means standing in the target circle thing on the ground... which is what they have internalized as something not to do. They need to stack on Static Shock, but spread out on other stuff. I think it's a great fight, but it makes people who've never raided outside of LFR do things that they're not used to doing. It will take some time for them to get it.

  12. #12
    Another problem is, people don't read.

    Their is a dungeon journal, that explains all of his abilities, as well as what happens with dead quadrants....

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