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  1. #81

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    Talk about missing the point while swinging for the fence!
    To be fair that fence had it coming. Smug bastard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneru View Post
    Back in Molten Core in Vanilla, about 20 people up and the rest still being ressed. Cidet, our rogue, goes in stealth and moves up to Ragnaros. About 5 seconds later, Ragnaros aggroes and starts killing all of us again. Everyone is pissed and I whisper Cidet "wtf happened?!". All he replies me is...

    "Target has no pockets"

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Urti View Post
    Actually he cites the raider community as the main reason, as they have perpetrated a culture of high stakes high consequence competition amongst themselves that was effectively impossible to maintain, and therefore has had the "unforeseen" consequence of burning out players. They push to be ubercompetitive, then other guilds top them so they work even harder, and so on until you get to an untenable state. Nice try on turning it around on Blizz though.
    Was this not a totally organic, escalating consequence of an ~6 year ongoing competition? If multiple groups want to be top, then they have to be willing to do whatever any single group is willing to do. We were bound to arrive here, eventually.

    I can't help but reflect on this totally binary approach to raiding: Either you raid 14-16 hours a day or you don't raid at all.

    Two things come to mind from that:

    1. So their enjoyment had nothing at all to do with the process, did it? The only thing that mattered was the world rank in the end. If they weren't willing to put in the insane time/effort to complete for #1, then fuck it, no reason to raid at all. #15? #30? Nope, #1 or nothing.
    2. I wonder if the raiders bonded much, at all. Did 14-16 hours, daily, make them close friends? Will they miss each other? Given my interaction with top raiders, my guess would be that, as a whole, those who want to continue raiding will find another group very quickly. They won't care much at all (other then the stress and $ of moving to a new guild).

    Maybe I'm assuming things that aren't true for <Exodus>. Maybe there are other factors and such. But I know those above two points apply to a fair number of 'hardcore' guilds...and it bothers me. That feels so extremely unhealthy.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Vensu24 View Post
    Death and Taxes

    Nihilum

    For The Horde!

    Ensidia

    Vodka

    Paragon (10 M isn't raiding)

    and now Exodus.

    Dominos fall, Wow goes on....
    I think Skyfang disbanded before pretty much all of those were even formed.

  5. #85
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    a guild who i never heard of stopped raiding yeah who cares

  6. #86
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    a guild who i never heard of stopped raiding yeah who cares
    You know I am just amazed of these comments like really if you truly don't give a shit why even bother posting I don't understand that.

  7. #87
    Pit Lord Azgraal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vensu24 View Post
    Death and Taxes

    Nihilum

    For The Horde!

    Ensidia

    Vodka

    Paragon (10 M isn't raiding)

    and now Exodus.

    Dominos fall, Wow goes on....
    Please, don't even go there. 10man group content is raiding. 25man group content is raiding. No matter what you think, this is the current state of the game.

  8. #88
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    a guild who i never heard of stopped raiding yeah who cares

    begs the question why are you posting here?

  9. #89
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Just a note to mention that arguing about 10 versus 25 raiding is not allowed.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Funny that he doesn't blame Blizzard, but the reason he cites for Exodus' demise is the result of Blizzard's choices in MoP.

    Back in the Wrath and Cata days, progression raiding guilds didn't need to do dailies, farm for coins, buy items on the BMAH, run LFR (excluding Hours of Twilight), and maintain armies of alts (excluding ToGC).

    But now because of all the gimmicks that Blizzard has added, the fact that epics are on the BMAH before current tier bosses ever get killed, now that you can't cap valor by raiding, and that serious raiding guilds had to run LFR when MoP launched, Blizzard in MoP has forced serious raiders to have to grind through all these things to stay competitive.

    "But no one is forced to do anything", they retort. And if you're one of the many people who subscribe to this argument, then you're out of touch with reality. This is what serious raiding guilds do to stay competitive. To claim that they don't have to do it, is to live in la-la land. In the real world, this is what happens. This is a fact of reality. And it's the result of Blizzard's poor design decision in MoP. But it doesn't have to be this way as WotLK and Cata shows.
    That's not the main reason. The insane amount of time spent raiding is.
    Unfortunately we (hardcore raiders) pushed too hard. Tier after tier we just keep adding to the insanity in both farming preparations and actual progressing. It's almost as if progression itself never really ends after a end tier boss dies. Combine this with Blizzard actually putting new content out faster, alts playing a big role, PTR/BETA, dailys, coins, BMAH, well... you just get lost in it all. Right now there are a few legit world first guilds left. The competition is slim because the competition is literally eating each other (well not that literally). Good luck to everyone left in the race for this expact, but I don't know how much longer this sort of thing can last.
    Last edited by Ruffles; 2013-05-02 at 02:35 AM.
    Rufflesaurus <Huhuholics> Tarren Mill EU





  11. #91
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    a guild who i never heard of stopped raiding yeah who cares
    you've never head of vodka?

    what fucking rock do you live under lol

  12. #92
    I get a little sad whenever a top guild goes down. It started with Cuties Only early on in Cata and Exodus is just the latest in the long line. Premonition was another top guild that I admired.

    And to all the haters: This news isn't for your casual player. It's more for the mid to top end progression guilds, who actually have friends/follow people in these guilds.

  13. #93
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Funny that he doesn't blame Blizzard, but the reason he cites for Exodus' demise is the result of Blizzard's choices in MoP.

    Back in the Wrath and Cata days, progression raiding guilds didn't need to do dailies, farm for coins, buy items on the BMAH, run LFR (excluding Hours of Twilight), and maintain armies of alts (excluding ToGC).

    But now because of all the gimmicks that Blizzard has added, the fact that epics are on the BMAH before current tier bosses ever get killed, now that you can't cap valor by raiding, and that serious raiding guilds had to run LFR when MoP launched, Blizzard in MoP has forced serious raiders to have to grind through all these things to stay competitive.

    "But no one is forced to do anything", they retort. And if you're one of the many people who subscribe to this argument, then you're out of touch with reality. This is what serious raiding guilds do to stay competitive. To claim that they don't have to do it, is to live in la-la land. In the real world, this is what happens. This is a fact of reality. And it's the result of Blizzard's poor design decision in MoP. But it doesn't have to be this way as WotLK and Cata shows.
    You will likely be plagued by a sea of Blizzard sycophants who can't admit the current direction of end game gearing is shit, and probably won't admit it even if Blizzard does a complete and total 180 in the next expansion. You are of course 100% correct and even method said more or less the same thing during the first tier of this expansion.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans icausewipes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
    I dont know the whole story but to me they sound like a bunch of whinny bitches ....sorry mods I mean ...they sound like frustrated players ..
    I agree 100%.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrSaTHsHNsc
    Greatest Dr Who video ever made.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by icausewipes View Post
    I agree 100%.
    Then why even bother posting? There are plenty of other threads out there. Stop wasting your time posting here. No one cares that you don't care.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Funny that he doesn't blame Blizzard, but the reason he cites for Exodus' demise is the result of Blizzard's choices in MoP.

    Back in the Wrath and Cata days, progression raiding guilds didn't need to do dailies, farm for coins, buy items on the BMAH, run LFR (excluding Hours of Twilight), and maintain armies of alts (excluding ToGC).

    But now because of all the gimmicks that Blizzard has added, the fact that epics are on the BMAH before current tier bosses ever get killed, now that you can't cap valor by raiding, and that serious raiding guilds had to run LFR when MoP launched, Blizzard in MoP has forced serious raiders to have to grind through all these things to stay competitive.

    "But no one is forced to do anything", they retort. And if you're one of the many people who subscribe to this argument, then you're out of touch with reality. This is what serious raiding guilds do to stay competitive. To claim that they don't have to do it, is to live in la-la land. In the real world, this is what happens. This is a fact of reality. And it's the result of Blizzard's poor design decision in MoP. But it doesn't have to be this way as WotLK and Cata shows.
    Your argument basically ends up as "More content and more variety of content is bad!"

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Let's see. They are players who have accomplished more in WoW than you ever will, they downed bosses you're going to wait 1-2 expansions before you'll even get a shot at them. Yet you call them "whinny bitches"? It's like you're trying to prove the things he said, not the game is the problem but what the community has become. A bunch of horrible pseudo hardcore players who aren't even any good.
    Accomplished more in WoW than he ever will? Crack out the champagne, let's toast to these "heroes".

    I've raided cutting edge heroic progression. A lot of the players are whiny bitches. More and more I found myself asking why I was wasting my time with them. It's a huge time commitment to someone with a job, friends and girlfriend. Where a lot of the people I was encountering had few or none of the above outside the game.

    Though I am still glad I quit raiding in DS. After a two week return in MoP I found the raid prep to have been made more tedious, and the raids to lack any originality, whilst also on the most part gimping melee. Between the players in that scene, and the games direction, there's no shock in seeing guilds disband. No point in playing a game if there's no fun to be had.

  18. #98
    Sad to see them go... though hopefully they will continue to RAID as a 10m guild.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Sad to see them go... though hopefully they will continue to RAID as a 10m guild.
    They're sensible people, they know 10 man raiding isn't real raiding.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    Your argument basically ends up as "More content and more variety of content is bad!"
    You could then argue that if players who aren't at least semi-hardcore raiders are the primary target of that content, why not give rewards that would be useless to hard mode raiders? They aren't saying get rid of the content. They are saying remove the benefit hardcores would get from doing the casual content.

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