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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    He forgot that he is only one of those 30-40 million Blizzard players who played it. So what he thinks is irrelevant.

    The blizzard pool is so huge and the rest of the bunch has the size of a rain drop.

    People talk here about millions as if they are about hundreds.

    And as I stated these are ... PAYING subscriptions EACH month. While the rest is free to play: zero per month.
    Where are those 30-40 million now? They are no longer "Blizzard players" they are ex-players they have decided that for whatever reason the game is not worth paying for.

    What does it matter if other games are free to play or not? This thread is about the number WOW subs.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
    It will probably prove to be the "end of wow" prophecy bringers' salvation in the same way rift, guild wars 2, star wars, etc etc etc was.
    Offtopic: I felt that I must tell you that I am watching Vash the stampede right now on episode 16 "finally getting to watch the whole series"

    Ontopic: Like I said early'er at lease 300k sub drop.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 08:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Yawn ... It amazes me that after 7 years people still come up with this nonsense...

    I am even too lazy to sum up all those failures from the last 7 years as I would need 2 pages to sum them up.

    ----> while the usual suspects always come in here and talk about "only" X million subsriptions ...I would like to point out that ... all those other MMO 's are now down to ... ZERO subscriptions as they went free to play.

    Ok EVE hovers around 400k, but the rest of the bunch lost ALL meaningful subscription numbers.

    So while the rest stands at zero or a few thousand, I think Blizzard is doing an amazing job by holding on to multi million subs.

    And frankly, is anyone surprised ? Of course not. The pool of potential Blizzard players is SOOOO huge, you have to consider that 30-40 million followers is just the bare minimum who hop in from time to time.

    You saw that in D3, you'll see it in Titan. The rest is glad they can address 5% of that market ... In ... Free to play...

    Stop dreaming of killing this thing.
    Hey look its benbos doing the samething he dose in every D3/WOW thread. Clearly you didn't read the reply you replyed to because he did not claim that ESO was going to kill WOW he just hopes that it is what he wants it to be and if it is he won't be playing WOW anymore.

    Just like I love NW and won't be playing any other MMORPG.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 08:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    He forgot that he is only one of those 30-40 million Blizzard players who played it. So what he thinks is irrelevant.
    Your comment is Irrelevant since all you do is white knight blizzard in nearly every single D3/WOW thread.

    I find it funny that 9 times out of 10 the WOW killer comment comes from a WOW fan trying to start something.......
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2013-05-02 at 08:26 AM.
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  3. #223
    Subs are definetely going down. 500k at least.

    It won't be a bigger drop than that because Blizzard is pushing out content faster in order to try keeping players.

    Blizzard won't give any details about expansions on the conference call. Hopefully they will at least mention Titan but I doubt it. They are probably saving up the juicy stuff for Blizzcon.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Where are those 30-40 million now? They are no longer "Blizzard players" they are ex-players they have decided that for whatever reason the game is not worth paying for.

    What does it matter if other games are free to play or not? This thread is about the number WOW subs.
    Because the pool is still there. That's the only thing that matters in the long run.

    It matters because in a free to play industry it is useless to discuss Blizzard's paid subscriptions.

    Even 1 M subs in a free to play industry would be owning the industry as such.

    That's THE difference with 3 years ago: the battle of subs (and the money) was decided years ago.

    Importance? future resources.

    So you are discussing a rather meaningless topic. It was useful when you had competition in that subs field ... But now this discussion is complete redundant.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-02 at 08:30 AM.

  5. #225
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    +/- 100k-300k. I tihnk it could go either way. 5.2 is a pretty good tier, and the dailies have improved a lot since 5.0.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Because the pool is still there. That's the only thing that matters in the long run.

    It matters because in a free to play industry it is useless to discuss Blizzard's paid subscriptions.

    Even 1 M subs in a free to play industry would be owning the industry as such.

    That's THE difference with 3 years ago: the battle of subs (and the money) was decided years ago.

    Importance? future resources.

    So you are discussing a rather meanngless topic.
    A customer base that may not be paying anything is what matters in the long run

    Yet a F2P game with a large customer base that may not be paying anything is irrelevant.

    I'm not quite sure why I'm actually responding to you; I very strongly doubt you'll actually take anything on board, but to suggest that not measuring subscription revenue or a sub-based game's userbase and comparing it to a F2P game's revenue or userbase is pointless is ridiculous.
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2013-05-02 at 08:33 AM.
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  7. #227
    They have been dropping in subscribers for quite a while, with MoP release being the only bump. So my guess is that they have lost another 100-500 thousand subscribers.

    Even if ToT is a good raid, most people don't really raid so I doubt it's going to have any real effect.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Because the pool is still there. That's the only thing that matters in the long run.

    It matters because in a free to play industry it is useless to discuss Blizzard's paid subscriptions.

    Even 1 M subs in a free to play industry would be owning the industry as such.

    That's THE difference with 3 years ago: the battle of subs (and the money) was decided years ago.

    Importance? future resources.

    So you are discussing a rather meanngless topic.
    There is no evidence to suggest that they are ever going to come back. I am not sure why you think that only 25%-30% of the people who have played the game are still playing is a good thing.

    Free to play games still make a profit and LoL has even larger player base than WOW, but that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

    If you think the topic is meaningless then why are you here? Do you even know what the topic is? You haven't managed one on topic reply yet. Maybe you could go an derail another topic?

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    A customer base that may not be paying anything is what matters in the long run

    Yet a F2P game with a large customer base that may not be paying anything is irrelevant.

    I'm not quite sure why I'm actually responding to you; I very strongly doubt you'll actually take anything on board, but to suggest that a F2P or B2P business model has no use for measuring active users as a function of net revenue is ridiculous.
    Forbes publishes MMO revenue.

    WoW is good for more than 1 billion dollars per year, the second MMO with still a fixed sub is Eve with around 50 mill.

    The rest of the bunch in free to play format is WAAAYY behind that. So you are all discussing a rather odd thing.

    Good example is Farmville with 70 million "players" but at a fraction of EvE's revenue.

    So what's the drive? WoW is losing subs, while the rest does have zero subs ?K?

    LoL...

    This is about making revenue (on topic !). So compare apples with apples... In an apple industry...

    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-02 at 08:42 AM.

  10. #230
    Predict a ~400k sub loss. The continuing rise of league, especially in china/taiwan/korea is taking the biggest bite out of wow subscriptions.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There is no evidence to suggest that they are ever going to come back. I am not sure why you think that only 25%-30% of the people who have played the game are still playing is a good thing.

    Free to play games still make a profit and LoL has even larger player base than WOW, but that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

    If you think the topic is meaningless then why are you here? Do you even know what the topic is? You haven't managed one on topic reply yet. Maybe you could go an derail another topic?
    That is all he dose. He go's into any thread related to WOW/D3 and derails it to the point it gets closed and I really wish a mod would step in and ban him "again" he has already been warned many times over to stop it and yet keeps doing it because sadly it works.

    If a thread has any hint of anything bad getting said about blizzard Benbos will be there to derail it to death.
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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Forbes publishes MMO revenue.

    WoW is good for more than 1 billion dollars per year, the second MMO with still a fixed sub is Eve with around 50 mill.

    The rest of the bunch in free to play format is WAAAYY behond that. So you are all discussing a rather odd thing.
    We are discussing what we think the sub numbers for Q1 will be, the clue is in the title "Thread: What's your predictions for the Q1 Call?" If you want to discuss free to play games you could make your own thread.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Forbes publishes MMO revenue.

    WoW is good for more than 1 billion dollars per year, the second MMO with still a fixed sub is Eve with around 50 mill.

    The rest of the bunch in free to play format is WAAAYY behind that. So you are all discussing a rather odd thing.

    Good example is Farmville with 70 million "players" but at a fraction of EvE's revenue.

    So what's the drive?
    Relevance aside, can you please cite your source?
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2013-05-02 at 08:42 AM.
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  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Forbes publishes MMO revenue.

    WoW is good for more than 1 billion dollars per year, the second MMO with still a fixed sub is Eve with around 50 mill.

    The rest of the bunch in free to play format is WAAAYY behond that. So you are all discussing a rather odd thing.
    Once more if you don't like the topic why comment in the thread.

    All you do is come into WOW/D3 threads and try to derail them if you don't like them so they get closed.

    I'm just going to go ahead and report you "again"
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Once more if you don't like the topic why comment in the thread.

    All you do is come into WOW/D3 threads and try to derail them if you don't like them so they get closed.

    I'm just going to go ahead and report you "again"
    The topic is first quater results.

    What is the MAIN factor of first quarter results: the revenue.

    So you better learn to comprehend that subscriptions are NOT the main point of a quarterly report for stockholders.

    That's revenue and so explain whe this is not on topic ?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The topic is first quater results.

    What is the MAIN factor of first quarter results: the revenue.

    So you better learn to comprehend.
    No this topic is asking what is your predictions for the first quater results not how much revenue they have made from it.

    so it is you who needs to comprehend.

    also all the talk and bashing you did to f2p mmo's and the money they make is very off topic.

    But like I said early'er every time a thread gets made that may have something bad said about blizzard you are there to derail it to death. so ill just ignore you hit the report botton and move on with the topic at hand.
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The topic is first quater results.

    What is the MAIN factor of first quarter results: the revenue.

    So you better learn to comprehend.
    But all you have written about is how brilliant WOW is because other games are free to play and even your revenue figures you have mentioned for WOW are wrong.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    But all you have written about is how brilliant WOW is because other games are free to play and even your revenue figures you have mentioned for WOW are wrong.
    I never said WoW is brilliant. All I say is ' it is stupid to compare WoW subscriptions within an industry that now is free to play since a couple of years.

    And Blizzard made 1.6 billion dollars in 2012, of which more than 1 billion came from WoW: easy to track in the financial reports.

    So it is useless to track only WoW subs WITHOUT looking at the overall MMORPG industry, which turned into free to play.

    That's a very logical way of viewing things.

    And quarterly results are ALL about revenue btw. Not about subscriptions, that's a sideshow for stockholders.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    I never said WoW is brilliant. All I say is ' it is stupid to compare WoW subscriptions within an industry that now is free to play since a couple of years.

    And Blizzard made 1.6 billion dollars in 2012, of which more than 1 billion came from WoW: easy to track in the financial reports.

    So it is useless to track only WoW subs WITHOUT looking at the overall MMORPG industry, which turned into free to play.

    That's a very logical way of viewing things.

    And quarterly results are ALL about revenue btw. Not about subscriptions, that's a sideshow for stockholders.
    We are comparing WOW's subscription numbers for this quarter with the numbers from the previous one other games being free to play has nothing to do it and is neither an indication of their quality or lack of. If you think it is stupid to discuss this you could have done everyone a favour and not derailed the thread.

    Blizzard have never released an individual breakdown of the financial performance of their games so I am not sure how it is "easy to track in the financial reports. Blizzard had an income of $1.6 billion this included sales of 11 million copies of D3 (it is unclear how they accounted for annual pass sales) at $60 each once you take these sales into account you have figure of less than $1 billion which includes SC2 and box sales of MOP. If you look at 2010 income when Blizzard last launched two major titles 2012 is $47 million down despite D3 outselling SC2 by almost three to one. WOW might have been able to generate a yearly income of over $1 billion but that is now a thing of the past.

    Why? The discussion at hand is about WOW's sub numbers and how they compare to the previous quarter free to play games have nothing to do with this. Why do you feel the need to deflect any poor performance by WOW by pointing out the performance of other games? I can only liken this behaviour to that a child who is in trouble with the teacher at school who insists that his misdemeanor should be overlooked because what another child had done was worse.

    We are not talking about revenue, we are talking about sub numbers.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No it isn't. It's exactly the point. The game may chronologically be "old" (although even that is a relative term I mean people are still playing games that are much older say Diablo 2 for example) but it doesn't have to FEEL OLD. Mists hasn't stopped the sub loss BECAUSE IT FEELS INCREDIBLY DATED and the emphasis on grind is the problem. It's bad for 2013. This isn't 2006 and trying to appeal to that era is foolish in the extreme. Mists is bad because it's a dinosaur. Seriously? daily quests as something to do? Did they all just sit around an office one day thinking shit up only to have one guy just say "hey i know daily quests" and then everybody else nod and that was it? How little thought and innovation can you put into a product?

    All this hedging by saying the game is old is comical and is just a way for you to dismiss any criticisms about the game. It's putting your fingers in your ears and screaming lalalalaala I can't hear you. Theirs is ZERO reason that the game has to continue to lose subs other than the developers don't have a clue what to do with it. Mists is a bad expansion and it's showing in the numbers. I mean if this were any other game by any other developer you'd all be screaming about how bad it was because it's loosing so many subs but since it's wow and it's blizzard you can't accept the idea that it's a poor quality product and you have to dream up this foolishness that because it's old it's can't be rejuvenated and it's just going to have to lose subscribers. Ironically you have lower expectations of the developers than I do. I expect they can make a product that will return subscribers and grow the game again. Most of you people defending them are resigned to loss.
    But the games age IS a valid issue. Subscription based MMO's are a fairly narrow-focus entity in the world of video games, and you can be rest assured that by now, most people who ever had a desire to play this game already have done so. And they've either stayed, or re-sub occasionally, or don't play any longer / won't be back. Expecting surges in subscriptions because of an influx of new players is extremely unrealistic. What IS realistic is seeing a sub bump at the start of every new expansion, and a slow trickle off as time goes by. Rinse, repeat.

    It's not unreasonable to expect that subs will be down to about 7 million within the next 2-3 years, even if the content is considered really good by most players.

    As for your other comments, lets hear your idea for keeping most players enticed to play on a consistent basis that doesn't involve a grind.
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