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  1. #241
    gonna be stable or a slight increase.
    This expansion is a big success and def step in the right direction

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    But the games age IS a valid issue. Subscription based MMO's are a fairly narrow-focus entity in the world of video games, and you can be rest assured that by now, most people who ever had a desire to play this game already have done so. And they've either stayed, or re-sub occasionally, or don't play any longer / won't be back. Expecting surges in subscriptions because of an influx of new players is extremely unrealistic. What IS realistic is seeing a sub bump at the start of every new expansion, and a slow trickle off as time goes by. Rinse, repeat.

    It's not unreasonable to expect that subs will be down to about 7 million within the next 2-3 years, even if the content is considered really good by most players.

    As for your other comments, lets hear your idea for keeping most players enticed to play on a consistent basis that doesn't involve a grind.
    There is no reason why age should be a factor in a game that is receiving regular updates, Eve which celebrates its tenth birthday this year has just announced it has broken the 500k sub barrier at the beginning of this year. If an older game that appeals to a far narrower audience than WOW can gain subscribers why can't WOW?

    Perhaps they could try releasing more content instead of relying on players grinding the same content over and over?

    Quote Originally Posted by cexspa View Post
    gonna be stable or a slight increase.
    This expansion is a big success and def step in the right direction
    There is no evidence to back this up, Q1 saw a loss and despite many of the posters here liking 5.2 the reality seems very different; ToT has the lowest number of organised raiders of any tier, LFR is plagued with complaints about wipes and loot and the IoT dailies were only completed by about 20%-30% of the players that visited the island.
    Last edited by Pann; 2013-05-02 at 01:35 PM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    We are comparing WOW's subscription numbers for this quarter with the numbers from the previous one other games being free to play has nothing to do it and is neither an indication of their quality or lack of. If you think it is stupid to discuss this you could have done everyone a favour and not derailed the thread.

    Blizzard have never released an individual breakdown of the financial performance of their games so I am not sure how it is "easy to track in the financial reports. Blizzard had an income of $1.6 billion this included sales of 11 million copies of D3 (it is unclear how they accounted for annual pass sales) at $60 each once you take these sales into account you have figure of less than $1 billion which includes SC2 and box sales of MOP. If you look at 2010 income when Blizzard last launched two major titles 2012 is $47 million down despite D3 outselling SC2 by almost three to one. WOW might have been able to generate a yearly income of over $1 billion but that is now a thing of the past.

    Why? The discussion at hand is about WOW's sub numbers and how they compare to the previous quarter free to play games have nothing to do with this. Why do you feel the need to deflect any poor performance by WOW by pointing out the performance of other games? I can only liken this behaviour to that a child who is in trouble with the teacher at school who insists that his misdemeanor should be overlooked because what another child had done was worse.

    We are not talking about revenue, we are talking about sub numbers.
    First: the financial reports DO seperate the income from the MMO (WoW) and other games. Apparently you can't read. And the MMO part is above 1 billion dollars.

    Second: diablo's income is never 60 dollars per copy sold, as you have to deduct retail profits, distribution etc... So with 1.6 billion BLIZZARD revenue it is easy to see Blizzard's subs per year.

    Third: you DO NOT GET IT, do you ? The market of subscription based games OUTSIDE of WoW vanished, dissapeared, most "competitors" are now down to zero, nill, nada subscriptions ...

    It is even worse: websites like MMODATA no longer update their subscription numbers since mid 2012... why ? Well simple: outside of WoW and EvE, the subscriptions dried up in the complete MMO industry.

    So it is rather odd to compare WoW subs from quarter to quarter over the past 2 years when EVERYTHING ELSE does not even have subscriptions anymore.

    You compare within a changed industry. You can't compare it with previous years since the definition of the subscriptions went to FREE to play.

    That's a rather VERY IMPORTANT fact when comparing WoW subscriptions over the last years.

    I think the above is far more IMPORTANT then an in game quality discussion and its so called influence on subs...which is TRIVIAL at best.

    And ... That's right on topic btw.

    The problem is ... That your discussion became old when the complete industry of sub based MMO's went down the drain so to speak.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-02 at 01:22 PM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Heresy View Post
    Checking my old realm using that...there's more level 90 Blood Elves than there are level 90 Alliance....*sadface*

    As to the prediction - worst case scenario, 600k loss, mostly in the Asian market. More likely either stable or a minor 100k drop across all markets.
    Last edited by Berethos08; 2013-05-02 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There is no reason why age should be a factor in a game that is receiving regular updates, Eve which celebrates its tenth birthday this year has just announced it has broken the 500k sub barrier at the beginning of this year. If an older game that appeals to a far narrower audience than WOW can gain subscribers why can't WOW?
    EVE only gained by expanding to Asia over the past 2 years. Their western server actvity is less too over the 2 last years. It can be traced on their website even.

    Nevertheless WoW and EvE are both still subscription based games and as such, the last of the big Mohicans.

    What you say is something like this: look WoW is worse so they loose subs over the last 2 years.

    While I say: nope, it is just the evolution of the industry as subscription based games almost ceased to exist. Certainly in WoW like multi million numbers.

    Simple.

  6. #246
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    A large enough drop to bring on the inevitable Chicken Little's on top of people boasting they called WoW's imminenet failure x many posts ago. Going from personal experience and broadening it to account for more people, I expect a lot of long time players are finally breaking their chains to the game. While the game has certainly picked up new players, I expect the amount who aren't currently subscribing are greater.


    Summary: Minor sub loss, forum freak out, business as usual.
    BAD WOLF

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    First: the financial reports DO seperate the income from the MMO (WoW) and other games. Apparently you can't read. And the MMO part is above 1 billion dollars.

    Second: diablo's income is never 60 dollars per copy sold, as you have to deduct retail profits, distribution etc... So with 1.6 billion BLIZZARD revenue it is easy to see Blizzard's subs per year.

    Third: you DO NOT GET IT, do you ? The market of subscription based games OUTSIDE of WoW vanished, dissapeared, most "competitors" are now down to zero, nill, nada subscriptions ...

    It is even worse: websites like MMODATA no longer update their subscription numbers since mid 2012... why ? Well simple: outside of WoW and EvE, the subscriptions dried up in the complete MMO industry.

    So it is rather odd to compare WoW subs from quarter to quarter over the past 2 years when EVERYTHING ELSE does not even have subscriptions anymore.

    You compare within a changed industry. You can't compare it with previous years since the definition of the subscriptions went to FREE to play.

    That's a rather VERY IMPORTANT fact when comparing WoW subscriptions over the last years.

    I think the above is far more IMPORTANT then an in game quality discussion and its so called influence on subs...which is TRIVIAL at best.

    And ... That's right on topic btw.

    The problem is ... That your discussion became old when the complete industry of sub based MMO's went down the drain so to speak.
    They do not separate each game's income in fact recently they have started bundling COD online payments into the Subscription, licensing and other revenues line. In all honestly I do not think that you, of all people, is any position to comment on others' ability to read.

    You are talking about income not profit as such the costs associated with D3 are irrelevant and even if they were the retail costs would be minimal as most copies were sold via digital download direct from Blizzard.

    Again this thread is not about the subscription numbers of other games and because other games have moved to or use a different payment method does not make them unsuccessful nor does it change the fact that WOW is facing a financial decline.

    How many times does it need to be said this thread is not about other games!

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    EVE only gained by expanding to Asia over the past 2 years. Their western server actvity is less too over the 2 last years. It can be traced on their website even.

    Nevertheless WoW and EvE are both still subscription based games and as such, the last of the big Mohicans.

    What you say is something like this: look WoW is worse so they loose subs over the last 2 years.

    While I say: nope, it is just the evolution of the industry as subscription based games almost ceased to exist. Certainly in WoW like multi million numbers.

    Simple.
    CCP deployed the Serenity server in China in 2006 and even if the growth was in Asia what does it matter? WOW's player base it made up of mostly Asian gamers why goes growth in that market not count for other games?

    I never said anything about WOW being worse than EVE because is has lost subs whereas Eve has not.

    Do you have anything even vaguely on topic to add or are you going to continue on your quest to derail the thread?

  8. #248
    WoW is dead, of course, as always?

    On a serious note, probably a stable amount of subs, perhaps a minor loss

  9. #249
    I called it 10 pages back that these threads only turn into bickerfests. "My answers are the right ones and you need to L2Read!" "No, MY answers are the right one and you are just trying to derail the thread." I said the info on the Q1 call is pure speculation and would only start a fight... and I was right.

  10. #250
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I called it 10 pages back that these threads only turn into bickerfests. "My answers are the right ones and you need to L2Read!" "No, MY answers are the right one and you are just trying to derail the thread." I said the info on the Q1 call is pure speculation and would only start a fight... and I was right.
    It's humorous that you are criticizing the thread as bickering on who is right and/or wrong, which leads to derailing the thred then close by saying you were right, which is just derailing the thread.

    Bathe in the irony. It's glorious!
    BAD WOLF

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    It's humorous that you are criticizing the thread as bickering on who is right and/or wrong, which leads to derailing the thred then close by saying you were right, which is just derailing the thread.

    Bathe in the irony. It's glorious!
    The thread was already derailing before I even commented. People are adding their own facts to explanatory. Everyone who doesn't agree with them is "wrong" and those who do, need to agree to precisely what was said as their version is the most "accurate". People are telling others to learn to read, or go back to school, or yank their heads out.

    This is not a derail. This is an I told you so at the end of an already derailing thread. No irony to be found when you stop and think about it.

  12. #252
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    This is not a derail. This is an I told you so.
    Just reread these words until it sinks in. I guess perspective is hard when you live in a fortress of solitude. *shrug*
    BAD WOLF

  13. #253
    I see we are going to do this useless dance again....

    We get the usual suspects who beg the heavens for blizzard to come to a complete financial collapse because Blizzard changed something and they reacted badly to it and apparently telling everyone they were quitting on a forum didn't convince anyone else to quit like they thought it would.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter what the numbers say because WoW is still blowing the competition down handedly even if its is an old game with a slowly decreasing population. If it were to loose half its population over night its still better off by leaps and bounds than any other mmo out there.

    If you hate wow so much then you need a healhier hobby than going onto the forums for a game that you don't play anymore and doomsaying it, its not healthy to spend your life screaming about something you supposedly quit. Move along and find something that actually makes you happy.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Just reread these words until it sinks in. I guess perspective is hard when you live in a fortress of solitude. *shrug*
    Have a nice day.

    As to the topic at hand: The call will show the game still has a very large carbon footprint compared to others in its category and that Subs are still up over 8M making it the continuing dominating force in MMOs today.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I see we are going to do this useless dance again....

    We get the usual suspects who beg the heavens for blizzard to come to a complete financial collapse because Blizzard changed something and they reacted badly to it and apparently telling everyone they were quitting on a forum didn't convince anyone else to quit like they thought it would.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter what the numbers say because WoW is still blowing the competition down handedly even if its is an old game with a slowly decreasing population. If it were to loose half its population over night its still better off by leaps and bounds than any other mmo out there.

    If you hate wow so much then you need a healhier hobby than going onto the forums for a game that you don't play anymore and doomsaying it, its not healthy to spend your life screaming about something you supposedly quit. Move along and find something that actually makes you happy.
    No one is begging for Blizzard's financial collapse.

    I am not sure how come to the conclusion that talking about WOW's sub numbers means that you must hate the game. If you are that invested in a product that you think that discussing anything that does show it in a positive light means that someone must not only not play any more but they hate it then maybe you should follow your own advice and find a healthier hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    The thread was already derailing before I even commented. People are adding their own facts to explanatory. Everyone who doesn't agree with them is "wrong" and those who do, need to agree to precisely what was said as their version is the most "accurate". People are telling others to learn to read, or go back to school, or yank their heads out.

    This is not a derail. This is an I told you so at the end of an already derailing thread. No irony to be found when you stop and think about it.
    Have you noticed that it is pro Blizzard people that seem determined to derail this thread?

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Have you noticed that it is pro Blizzard people that seem determined to derail this thread?
    This is usually how the fight goes. Pro Blizz Support vs. The Doomsday Chicken Littles. One side advocates this is just a game and it is doing great. The other side is bound and determined to have the honor of driving the last nail into the proverbial WoW Coffin. Most people fail to enjoy the game when they focus on things outside of the game. I would likely hate my homestate a lot more if I really dug deep into all of the crap they have to contend with and the choices they have to make on a daily basis. WoW for me is just a hobby, and I don't want to ruin my hobby by focusing on the business aspects and the negativity. So I am neither for Blizz, nor against them. I'm just a guy playing a game much the same way I have for years.

  17. #257
    I still like WoW
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    This is usually how the fight goes. Pro Blizz Support vs. The Doomsday Chicken Littles. One side advocates this is just a game and it is doing great. The other side is bound and determined to have the honor of driving the last nail into the proverbial WoW Coffin. Most people fail to enjoy the game when they focus on things outside of the game. I would likely hate my homestate a lot more if I really dug deep into all of the crap they have to contend with and the choices they have to make on a daily basis. WoW for me is just a hobby, and I don't want to ruin my hobby by focusing on the business aspects and the negativity. So I am neither for Blizz, nor against them. I'm just a guy playing a game much the same way I have for years.
    Despite the claims no-one had been prophesying the doom of WOW or Blizzard in this thread. Rather than derailing the thread then proclaiming I told you so why not either contribute or steer clear of it?

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Despite the claims no-one had been prophesying the doom of WOW or Blizzard in this thread. Rather than derailing the thread then proclaiming I told you so why not either contribute or steer clear of it?
    Well then... allow me to steer clear of it. I leave you to your thread and all of its speculations.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Despite the claims no-one had been prophesying the doom of WOW or Blizzard in this thread. Rather than derailing the thread then proclaiming I told you so why not either contribute or steer clear of it?
    Stating that the mmorpg industry changed from being a subscription based one to a free to play industry HAS an impact on WoW subscriptions.

    As such it CONTRIBUTES to the thread.

    It is odd to think that a changing industry to free to play as standard would not have had an impact on WoW subscriptions.

    But go on, you amuse me. Because the mmo market changed from 16 million subs of which WoW had 11.5 ... to 11 miilion of which WoW has 9+ million...

    I don't see the derail by giving the changed situation in which WoW has to OPERATE to obtain those subs ...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-02 at 04:11 PM.

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