Thread: State of Arena?

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  1. #1

    State of Arena?

    What is the general consensus right now on the state of Arena in terms of balance, playability, and overall enjoyment?

    What do you think could be done to improve it?

    Also, are there less people in numbers playing now? Where can I see some recorded data on the approximate numbers of people that are playing Arena in Pandaria as opposed to in the previous expansions?

  2. #2
    current state of arena right now is pretty poo if you dont play thugcleave or MLS ... , what can be done to improve it nerf the right people and both those in dyer need !!

  3. #3
    Arena is absolutely awful.
    It's based on comp, gear, and how hard you can roll your face on the keyboard.

    There needs to be more constant damage and less cc and less SPREAD pressure. Have you even fought a 2500 UnholyPlay? Dk/afflock/rshaman. No? Well they are going to rot your whole team till the shaman could finish you off if he wanted to. The only way to win is have more cc.

    Bring back hard counters, bring back burst IF LINED RIGHT MEANING YOU NEED SKILL TO PULL IT OFF. Not just powershot in an opener and hope it crits. NO! More like double cc dps and healer, coordinate cooldowns and kill while your healer is purging.

    And I can garuntee you there is less people, because of how hard it is from the season 13 honor gear to conquest gear gap is. Scaling is out of this world, which is why pvp resil is the best stat right now, because of how well it scales. IMO buff season 13 gear, make conquest gear only 10ilvl's higher, and get rid of resilience, but keep the passive 65% and make pvp power scale better so that it's not hard to kill someone when you have no gear, but not so it's over the line stack the shit out of to kill someone in an opener.

    IDK I liked the feel of wrath pvp, but I love the smoothness of MOP and how polished everything is, like heroic strike not on a GCD, I really liked that change, but I miss the feel of being able to mix pve gear and pvp gear based on what comp you were playing or playing against.
    I'll tear you apart...
    Once my hand heals,
    I'll rip you apart...
    Tear you to shreds...
    Rip you into tiny pieces...
    And eat you! - Eren Yaeger

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by torgaltroop1 View Post
    current state of arena right now is pretty poo if you dont play thugcleave or MLS ... , what can be done to improve it nerf the right people and both those in dyer need !!
    They've had 13 seasons to do that though. What makes you think they won't just overnerf the classes that are OP right now and then overbuff the classes that kind of/sort of need it like they usually do?

    Or just neglect some of the specs that sorely need it?

  5. #5
    90 % of these kind of threads are Reckful fanboys that hear him say what comps are OP and even tho they don't play arens themselves they speak as if they're gods. Please. You're making it sound as if you can't even play arenas atm... Far from true. I mean you aren't all going for R1 Misery/BG9 are you?

  6. #6
    I enjoy arenas more then in any other expansion.

    People who say arenas were more balanced in TBC or Wrath simply didn't play back then. You can't judge balance by numbers of people who plays it or if every comp can beat every other one because this is an MMO and there's always going to be counters because all classes are rather different.

    Instead you should look at how many viable comps there is, I rarely queue in to the same comp several times in a row with different people. It's always different comps and they're all viable. You're always going to have certain comps that are stronger than others such as Hunter / Rogue / Disc or Mage / SP / Druid, Shaman. That does not mean they game is unbalanced.

    I don't think the game has been this balanced since S9 or S10. People saying "but S8 was amazing" yeah if you were a caster or a prot warrior besides that it was awful, it might of been fun but it was terrible balance wise. There's more viable comps now than back in Wrath and if you disagree you're just being ignorant and delusional.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    I enjoy arenas more then in any other expansion.

    People who say arenas were more balanced in TBC or Wrath simply didn't play back then. You can't judge balance by numbers of people who plays it or if every comp can beat every other one because this is an MMO and there's always going to be counters because all classes are rather different.

    Instead you should look at how many viable comps there is, I rarely queue in to the same comp several times in a row with different people. It's always different comps and they're all viable. You're always going to have certain comps that are stronger than others such as Hunter / Rogue / Disc or Mage / SP / Druid, Shaman. That does not mean they game is unbalanced.

    I don't think the game has been this balanced since S9 or S10. People saying "but S8 was amazing" yeah if you were a caster or a prot warrior besides that it was awful, it might of been fun but it was terrible balance wise. There's more viable comps now than back in Wrath and if you disagree you're just being ignorant and delusional.
    It depends on what you refer balance to. What YOU mean by balance is class balance. It's actually true that you can play almost any spec of any class (tank specs excluded) and be successful with it. This wasn't the case in TBC. There you could only play a few specs and a few comps at a really high level. But have you asked yourself why you can play so many classes in MoP? Do you think that is because blizzard actually learned how to adequately buff/nerf classes that deserve/need it? The reason why you can play so many classes is because blizzard's design approach changed to: Fuck it, lets just give every spec 3 ccs and make burst more ridiculous than it ever was. So the arena gameplay you have in MoP just is: Spam your ccs on cooldown, spam your damage cds on cooldown and whoever runs out of defensive cds first looses. For most standards that's a pretty poor design approach even if it makes more specs playable.
    But anyways, what other people may mean by balance (me included) is "skill" balance. I like to have a strong correlation of how good I play and how succesful I am. If I play better I want to win, if I get outplayed by another team I deserve to lose. Of course you can't apply that to every case (e.g. luck is always involved, certain compositions are always favored in certain matchups etc.), but it should apply to the majority of cases. And in the "skill" department wow pvp never was worse than MoP. In TBC you would play against a team and you could guess its rating by +-50 depending on how good or bad they played and you would be right in 90% of all cases (of course excluding teams that started a new team or something like that). In MoP most of the time you have no clue whatsoever how high- or lowrated a team is. You can get crushed in 15 seconds against a 1900 team and you can have like the easiest game of your life against a 2400 team. So the shift of balance from skill has a high and other stuff a low influence on the outcome of your games to pretty much exactly the opposite is what gets many players frustrated in MoP PvP.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    There are currently 6 specs that are bit on the powerful side and they are:
    Resto shammies
    Disc priests
    Shadow priests
    Bm hunters
    Sub rogues
    Mages

    currently you need to pretty much take 2-3 of those specs and you have a great comp.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    I enjoy arenas more then in any other expansion.

    People who say arenas were more balanced in TBC or Wrath simply didn't play back then.
    I enjoy arena less than any other expansion.

    Every comp feels like wotlk beastcleave or s9 tsg. As enhance/ele I drop to 10 % in the opener garrote and get trained by retard hunters the whole game through every defensive cd with unhealable and unkitable dmg or as a resto druid I get spammed by skilled 40 yards range instant cc.

  10. #10
    Thugcleave or MLS or God Comp or go home.

    There's some classes that are over the top and combined together they are godlike.

    I play ret/hunter/disc. We must time our CC and our burst to get a kill while MLS fear bomb, deep freeze, icelance/chaos bolt and they win.
    Victory to the Alliance !

  11. #11
    Arena = meh and not healthy for your wow Experience >_>

  12. #12
    im plaing as enh shaman what more to say beside "it suck badly for me"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    It depends on what you refer balance to. What YOU mean by balance is class balance. It's actually true that you can play almost any spec of any class (tank specs excluded) and be successful with it. This wasn't the case in TBC. There you could only play a few specs and a few comps at a really high level. But have you asked yourself why you can play so many classes in MoP? Do you think that is because blizzard actually learned how to adequately buff/nerf classes that deserve/need it? The reason why you can play so many classes is because blizzard's design approach changed to: Fuck it, lets just give every spec 3 ccs and make burst more ridiculous than it ever was. So the arena gameplay you have in MoP just is: Spam your ccs on cooldown, spam your damage cds on cooldown and whoever runs out of defensive cds first looses. For most standards that's a pretty poor design approach even if it makes more specs playable.
    But anyways, what other people may mean by balance (me included) is "skill" balance. I like to have a strong correlation of how good I play and how succesful I am. If I play better I want to win, if I get outplayed by another team I deserve to lose. Of course you can't apply that to every case (e.g. luck is always involved, certain compositions are always favored in certain matchups etc.), but it should apply to the majority of cases. And in the "skill" department wow pvp never was worse than MoP. In TBC you would play against a team and you could guess its rating by +-50 depending on how good or bad they played and you would be right in 90% of all cases (of course excluding teams that started a new team or something like that). In MoP most of the time you have no clue whatsoever how high- or lowrated a team is. You can get crushed in 15 seconds against a 1900 team and you can have like the easiest game of your life against a 2400 team. So the shift of balance from skill has a high and other stuff a low influence on the outcome of your games to pretty much exactly the opposite is what gets many players frustrated in MoP PvP.
    You can still guess the rating of people quite easily, only thing which changed from tbc, is number of comps, so that's why it's harder to say what rating they are right now. Back in TBC you usually played against same teams when you were top rated, and there were much fewer comps playable at top rating.

    You should elaborate on on every class 3 ccs. So you think that one class should be cc oriented and other should be without cc, is that correct?

    Also burst more ridicilous ever? Did you play during wrath?

    If it was as easy as to spam cd's on cooldown, wouldn't all same comps be on same rating?

    I just don't follow your reasoning, I think the guy you quoted was much closer to the truth, but again everything is relative, and I am tired of everyone stating everything as FACT.

  14. #14
    I like a lot of what is being said in this thread. That being said I left the game about a month ago. Arena is just not that fun. Some may find it fun, and maybe a few games here and there can be fun, but overall it's CD's, and instant CC which does not offer itself to a lasting fun experience. In short, it should be "uncommon" to die in a stun while your healer has most of their CD's left unused, and that is not the case. I really don't know what they can do to remedy this issue.

  15. #15
    Since when was MLS a top-tier comp? It's good, but nowhere near as good as RPS/RPD, Thug and Shattreeplay.


    OT: Arena is pretty good at the moment, arguably the skillcap has gone down from previous seasons but the overall balance is pretty good. Apart from a couple of outliers (hunter, rogue, spriest) most classes are pretty good and just about any spec has a comp that can work around it.

    All healers are pretty balanced at the moment, it's probably the closest all healers have been to each other balance-wise since ever.

    Yes, the amount of players has dropped considerably in Arena. The only noticeable difference is slightly slower queue times and title cutoffs. It's nowhere near dead though.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    You can still guess the rating of people quite easily, only thing which changed from tbc, is number of comps, so that's why it's harder to say what rating they are right now. Back in TBC you usually played against same teams when you were top rated, and there were much fewer comps playable at top rating.
    Number of comps has nothing to do with how good or bad people are playing. Half of the hunters on 2100+ rated teams I played against forgot to initially activate their skill for being able to place traps on range. Of course that's just one example, but you could probably go on forever with examples of really obvious terrible plays from high rated teams. That doesn't mean that in TBC every high rated team played perfectly, but there weren't as many ridiculously bad plays from them than in MoP. Not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    You should elaborate on on every class 3 ccs. So you think that one class should be cc oriented and other should be without cc, is that correct?
    No, that's not correct. What I mean is: In the earlier days of wow you had to precisely time your cc-chains in order to kill someone. If you overlapped them you screwed up your kill chance. With as much (spammable) cc as there now is in the game and the many different diminishing groups it doesn't matter if you overlap your ccs or even throw e.g. 2 ccs on a target at the same time (you see this even on streams like reckful, venruki etc. all the time). You still have a chance to kill the target. That alone makes pvp require much less skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    Also burst more ridicilous ever? Did you play during wrath?
    Actually I did and got one of my titles in wrath.

    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    If it was as easy as to spam cd's on cooldown, wouldn't all same comps be on same rating?
    That's actually a pretty stupid comment, but I'll still answer it. No, because spamming cd's obviously isn't the only factor to decide a game. Additionally depends on gear, skill (to a much lesser extent as it should be), (crit) luck, positioning, cd usage, form of cc (instant/cast, dispellable/not dispellable) etc. But the large amount of cc in combination with the high amount of burst (which almost any spec has) gives you easy kill opportunities throughout the game without the need of really "working for it". And you can do that with almost any dd combination, that's why there are so many "viable" comps.

    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    I just don't follow your reasoning, I think the guy you quoted was much closer to the truth, but again everything is relative, and I am tired of everyone stating everything as FACT.
    Just because I don't write "in my opinion" twice a sentence doesn't mean I'm stating facts. I never said like "Attention: Here comes the one and only truth!". I said why I think that pvp (arena) is in its worst state ever, not more and not less. And that's actually what the thread is about. At least your last word is in caps which obviously makes your statement worth more, so Kudos.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    Number of comps has nothing to do with how good or bad people are playing. Half of the hunters on 2100+ rated teams I played against forgot to initially activate their skill for being able to place traps on range. Of course that's just one example, but you could probably go on forever with examples of really obvious terrible plays from high rated teams. That doesn't mean that in TBC every high rated team played perfectly, but there weren't as many ridiculously bad plays from them than in MoP. Not even close.
    Having trap launcher off is obviously big mistake, though I think you exaggerating with the amount of hunters you met like that. They won't get much further in rating like that, and you could say they are one the most brain dead class right now, though you can see how good is hunter from how he places traps mostly. They were op in 5.0-5.1, and now also in 5.2, so there are many rerollers, and if they don't have trap launcher on, it's most likely their first game, and even the best players make silly mistakes in the first games of the day. In tbc I can't help I met over and over the same comps, I knew exactly what to expect. Right now you have choice of talents, arguably have much more skills to use than before, so there is more margin for error, and also it's much harder to say how good the player actually is.

    So you say you now there are actually more classes viable than ever before, and you also say that you can have easy time against 2400 and hard against 1800. If more classes are viable than you can play with more classes at higher rating, which wasn't possible before, so I don't get how you can have hard time against 1800 and easy against 2400, what are you saying, rating doesnt matter anymore? Or are you saying some comps counter each other harder than before? Because that's definitely not true in my opinion, and I saw so many posts to bring back counters in the game, so now which is it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    No, that's not correct. What I mean is: In the earlier days of wow you had to precisely time your cc-chains in order to kill someone. If you overlapped them you screwed up your kill chance. With as much (spammable) cc as there now is in the game and the many different diminishing groups it doesn't matter if you overlap your ccs or even throw e.g. 2 ccs on a target at the same time (you see this even on streams like reckful, venruki etc. all the time). You still have a chance to kill the target. That alone makes pvp require much less skill.
    Well dieing in one fear in tbc nothing new. In wotlk with BL zerk comps nothing new to die in one cc, you only had to time it right. But yes ccs overlap even in high rated matches now, and that's because more classes have useful cc than before, but still in the most games you need much more time than one cc to get kill now. Thugcleave might be exception, but the kills generally take much longer than they used to. And if you would remember exactly how it was in past you would agree. Currently you can chain cc for immense amounts of time, and not even get a kill, so overlapping is naturally result of more cc from different classes than before. In the past only some classes had actually good cc, and some just tunneled, so there wasnt anything to overlap. Still there isnt much more of spammable cc than in tbc, those date from those dates, and the most of the extra cc is from the other classes, which are now actually viable right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    Actually I did and got one of my titles in wrath.
    So then you should know that thats when people started to use term globaled, because it was much bursty than it is now. You can get bursted only sometimes during all offensive cds, and it's still arguably much slower than it used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    That's actually a pretty stupid comment, but I'll still answer it. No, because spamming cd's obviously isn't the only factor to decide a game. Additionally depends on gear, skill (to a much lesser extent as it should be), (crit) luck, positioning, cd usage, form of cc (instant/cast, dispellable/not dispellable) etc. But the large amount of cc in combination with the high amount of burst (which almost any spec has) gives you easy kill opportunities throughout the game without the need of really "working for it". And you can do that with almost any dd combination, that's why there are so many "viable" comps.
    So there is actually skill involved unlike you stated in your last post. I still don't get it, just because there are more buttons to push, there is less skill involved? How would you increase skill in arena? Remove cd's? You should work for Blizzard or any other mmo, if you have answer straight answer for this. I think it's actually harder than before, because you have to keep in mind much more defensive cds of enemy team in mind, and also line up your cds correctly. Thugcleave is bit brain dead right now, but it is being adjusted in 5.3, still if you want to beat best teams you have to set up your opener ccs perfectly. There were much more kill opportunities in last expansions because there werent as many offensive cd's. Right now you can kill some comps only with your cd's up, while theirs are off, and that's arguably harder to set up, than just ccr right, and not pop anything and kill something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    Just because I don't write "in my opinion" twice a sentence doesn't mean I'm stating facts. I never said like "Attention: Here comes the one and only truth!". I said why I think that pvp (arena) is in its worst state ever, not more and not less. And that's actually what the thread is about. At least your last word is in caps which obviously makes your statement worth more, so Kudos.
    My last word in caps is so you think twice before you state something as fact, form your writing attitude it still seems to me like you feel about yourself like "I am best player in the world, and I know everything about mmos and how they work, and blizzard doesnt, I am just not willing to post any solutions about it, because other people dont deserve to benefit from my geniality, I am just going to state it's bad, and going to keep playing it, even though I always whine about state of things."

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Preheet's Avatar
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    I used to absolutely LOVE RBGS/Arenas/BGs... and now I can't even bring myself to get capped every week.. I have completely lost the taste for PVP this expansion. I'll even go as far as stating that I would rather Cata PVP over how it is now.

  19. #19
    Arenas are completely FOTM. Comp is everything right now so its very annoying to play if your playing anything subpar. Even at 2k you have to work your ASS OFF to even survive a thugcleaves open unless you have a viable comp.

    Improvements? Increase health pools by 50%, reduce all cc durations by 20%, increase mana cost of heals by 25%, keep the resil change in mind I guess its ok. Burst, both healing and damage, needs to be reduced along with some cc reduction. Of course theres a few problem specs to tone down but overall burst is too high but healing is strong too.

  20. #20
    CC cds should be at 1-2, instead of being able to chain them you would seriously have to think about using it at the proper time, right now CC is out of control imo.

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